Leather Armor?

Ben Williams · Post by **Ben Williams** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:00 pm

I have recently been scouting out some foam fighting groups like the SCA, Belegarth, and Dagohir and have noticed that almost everyone wears leather armor, if any armor.

The reason, I believe, that most people in such groups wear leather rather than plate, brigindine, maille, etc. is that it is very easy to make with limited expertise. Also, there is no advantage to wearing maille or plate in such groups (and actually is a disadvantage since 1) both are generally heavier and 2) a person wearing plate is not allowed to initiate a grapple at all and a person wearing maille may only against another maille or plate wearer) since all armor, regardless of quality or make, only protects for one blow.

In such an environment it is understandable why leather is predominant.

However, was leather armor common throughout the dark and middle ages?

AlexCSmith · Post by **AlexCSmith** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:49 pm

The (much maligned hereabouts) SCA does not fight with foam. They fight with sticks.

Most of the folks I knew when I was with the SCA wore leather armor because it is cheaper and easier to make than metal armor. Mainly because it's cheaper.

For the same reasons it was very popular in the periods you mention.

SCA Disclaimer: I had a ton of fun in the SCA but I never considered it research or martial practice. There were a few who considered themselves to be doing that but they generally lost alot and were not socially dissimilar from Barney Fife.

Ben Williams · Post by **Ben Williams** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:22 pm

They fight with sticks

Didn't know that. I visited an SCA group but didn't fight or see any fighting. I have fought at a combined Belegarth / Dagorhir event and they used foam weapons.

Since the closest ARMA group is at least an hour's drive foam fighting is about the closest I can get right now (other than trying to mimic moves in videos).

But anyway, was leather ever common? Was it ever used?

Brandon Paul Heslop · Post by **Brandon Paul Heslop** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:14 am

Ben Williams wrote:
They fight with sticks

Didn't know that. I visited an SCA group but didn't fight or see any fighting. I have fought at a combined Belegarth / Dagorhir event and they used foam weapons.

Since the closest ARMA group is at least an hour's drive foam fighting is about the closest I can get right now (other than trying to mimic moves in videos).

But anyway, was leather ever common? Was it ever used?

Yes, leather was indeed used. It was commonly boiled to make it quite stiff and more resistant to damage. It was also commonly augmented with mail and plates of steel.

That's not to say that it was preferred...

-B.

Rod-Thornton · Post by **Rod-Thornton** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:15 am

Hey Ben.

If you are serious about learning a martial art, then consider yourself fortunate with only having an hour's drive to the nearest ARMA study group. (Which one is it?) -For a couple of years I had about 1.5 hrs. each way, but made the trip every week to train, until being able to relocate to that area more permanently.

"Foam" fighting is sort of an oxymoron there.... kinda like "dry" water or "gentle" gunshot wound. Why do you want to learn foam-n-pretend stuff if you're interested in martial arts?

Ben Williams wrote:
Since the closest ARMA group is at least an hour's drive foam fighting is about the closest I can get right now (other than trying to mimic moves in videos).

But anyway, was leather ever common? Was it ever used?

Ben Williams · Post by **Ben Williams** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:58 am

"Foam" fighting is sort of an oxymoron there.... kinda like "dry" water or "gentle" gunshot wound. Why do you want to learn foam-n-pretend stuff if you're interested in martial arts?

I enjoy it at it is - a sport, not a martial art. If there is an ARMA group near Auburn Alabama I'll go to that when I go to college next year.

Will Adamson · Post by **Will Adamson** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:05 pm

There are a couple of beasts around the Birmingham area.

:!:

WAR EAGLE!!! :!:

Ben Williams · Post by **Ben Williams** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:59 pm

Am I right in guessing that leather was the poor man's armor and was used in conjunction with other armor (like as a lining in a helmit or as padding)?

RayMcCullough · Post by **RayMcCullough** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:07 am

Hey Ben. Auburn is not far from Montgomery or Pelham. I am just outside of Montgomery and Jeff Hanson is in Pelham. Come train when you can.

Nathan Dexter · Post by **Nathan Dexter** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:46 pm

the SCA has nothing to do with what we do, and I garuntee you will get a better workout, and probably start to enjoy it as a martial art if you get involved with the ARMA. I wish I was lucky enough to live that close.

LafayetteCCurtis · Post by **LafayetteCCurtis** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:56 am

Hardened leather was used, but it was nt quite as common as padded/quilted cloth or even munitions-grade metallic armor. Armor-grade leather was expensive and rather hard to get before the advent of extensive ranching practices in the 16th or 17th century (probably the former) but doesn't give much more protection than the considerably cheaper cloth-based armors. In this sense, Hollywood is definitely guilty for using way too much leather and way too little cloth for armoring the people in their medieval scenes. Leather became a lot more popular during the Renaissance--perhaps because it also got a lot cheaper.

That only applies to sedentary agricultural Europe, however. In primarily pastoralist cattle-raising societies like those of the nomads on the Eurasian steppes, leather armor was much more prevalent than it was in medieval Europe.

Scott A. Richardson · Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:14 am

LafayetteCCurtis wrote:Hardened leather was used, but it was nt quite as common as padded/quilted cloth or even munitions-grade metallic armor. Armor-grade leather was expensive and rather hard to get before the advent of extensive ranching practices in the 16th or 17th century (probably the former) but doesn't give much more protection than the considerably cheaper cloth-based armors. In this sense, Hollywood is definitely guilty for using way too much leather and way too little cloth for armoring the people in their medieval scenes. Leather became a lot more popular during the Renaissance--perhaps because it also got a lot cheaper.

That only applies to sedentary agricultural Europe, however. In primarily pastoralist cattle-raising societies like those of the nomads on the Eurasian steppes, leather armor was much more prevalent than it was in medieval Europe.

Lafayette's excellent answer here points out one of the most difficult things I have personally found when trying to discuss details on Medieveal and Renaissance Europe. When and where exactly is one thinking?

The Middle Ages essentially lasted for 1000 years, stretching from the slow decline of the Western Roman Empire to the beginning of the Reanissance, and included everything from the Highlands in Scotland to Sicily, and everything in between. The Renaissance tags on a few extra hundred years to the equation. When you take in that much time with so many different people, the answer will invariably start with, "It depends..."

So anyway, the answer to your question is pretty much spot on what Lafayette said. I have nothing helpful to add to that, just wanted to point out the difficulty getting a clear answer when we wonder about things in the Medieval era.

Thank you.

TravisLDuff · Post by **TravisLDuff** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:56 pm

Leather is also popular for aesthetic reasons but if you order some you should make sure you're buying armor grade instead of the lighter LARP stuff. I'm into SCA for a year this September and I'd compare our combat to paintball. We're fighting but in a full-contact sport way. I can understand why ARMA practitioners would look down on us because we feel the same way about LARPers. (Oh no, not headshots! That foam sword might somehow crack my skull!)