Wasters

[Steve Fitch]

Hello!

Where would I look to get a nice waster? I even heard of plastic wasters?

Please help?

[Brent Lambell]

I would first recommend reviewing ARMA's link page as a starter.

http://www.thearma.org/links.htm

One manufacturer of nylon wasters is a fellow ARMA member and his website is here:

http://www1.freewebs.com/wiwasters/About.htm

I hope that helps. I personally use the Raven Studios longsword and arming sword wasters and have handled New Stirling Arms. I prefer Raven, but I have nothing bad to say about New Starling Arms and it seems many other ARMA members prefer them above all. I have yet to handle a nylon but I hope to soon.

[ChristineChurches]

I personally have and use both New Stirling Arms' perfect wasters (longsword and on handed) as well as those by With Intent (longsword, arming sword, dagger, and messer) and like both for various reasons - the wood for historical accuracy and feel, and the plastic for the way it reacts in a bind.

I also have daggers by Raven Studios that I really enjoy - quite beautiful and functional.

[Steve Fitch]

Thanks! This is a nice start!

Now..What do you all feel about plastic to wood? Should I have both on hand? etc.

Thanks all in advance!

[Ken Dietiker]

Don't forget that ARMA Senior Researcher Brian Hunt also makes Plastic wasters.

http://www.emerytelcom.net/users/blhunt/sales.htm

[Will Adamson]

Thanks! This is a nice start!

Now..What do you all feel about plastic to wood? Should I have both on hand? etc.

Thanks all in advance!

If you have the money and inclination...yes. Is there such a thing as too many swords?

I certainly can't speak for Eric Winkler who makes the With-Intent nylon wasters, but he may be in the midst of a redesign. I prefer to use his wasters for freeplay and any binding drills. Wood is best for pellwork and other individual practice IMHO.

[Axel Pettersson]

Wood is best for pellwork and other individual practice IMHO.

Hi Will,

in what ways do you feel wood is better than nylon in pellwork and other individual practice?

[Will Adamson]

Perhaps it's partly just the feeling that a good piece of wood gives a person. Basically it's the rigidity. When hitting a pell the nylon just felt floppy. Either type of waster is going to bounce a bit off of a pell. The wood just does it less it seems. Now in the realm of individual drills, it just comes down to the tactile pleasure of wood I guess.

This really is all just opinion.

[Brian Hunt]

Hi Guys,

I think a good wood waster is a good place to start for your first training tool. More people have wood than have plastic. Wood is stiffer and works better for pell work. I quit making wood wasters because I just couldn't get decent hickory anymore. The last hickory I ordered I was only able to use about 1/4 of it.

I like plastic because of the way it feels in the bind and I like it better than wood for sparring purposes. Though my favorite sparring tool is blunt steel (if I have a partner whose control I trust).

As usual, different tools give you different feels and advantages and disadvantages for your training. That is part of the reason that ARMA uses a multi tool approach to our training.

For wood wasters, I reccomend New Sterling Arms.

All the best.

Brian Hunt

ARMA Senior Researcher
GFS

[Steve Fitch]

Hi Guys,

I think a good wood waster is a good place to start for your first training tool. More people have wood than have plastic. Wood is stiffer and works better for pell work. I quit making wood wasters because I just couldn't get decent hickory anymore. The last hickory I ordered I was only able to use about 1/4 of it.

I like plastic because of the way it feels in the bind and I like it better than wood for sparring purposes. Though my favorite sparring tool is blunt steel (if I have a partner whose control I trust).

As usual, different tools give you different feels and advantages and disadvantages for your training. That is part of the reason that ARMA uses a multi tool approach to our training.

For wood wasters, I reccomend New Sterling Arms.

All the best.

Brian Hunt

ARMA Senior Researcher
GFS

What about the weight of both? Would the weight and flexibility of the plastic be more accurate to the real thing?

[Axel Pettersson]

Thanks for your replies Will and Brian, I have used a punching bag as a pell with my nylon waster but I never stopped to think about if a wooden waster would be preferable.

This made me remember a thread on another forum where a person who had used nylon for many years said that continued use could hurt the tendons in your forearms, taking long time to recover. Apparently hockey players have the same problem and so many of them have gone back from nylon sticks to traditional wooden ones.

I do not know how much of a problem this really is but it can be worth knowing if you start having problems with your tendons.

[Will Adamson]

I would think that the tendon issue, likely caused by the vibration, would only happen if the person were using a wood pell. Wooden wasters were apparently used on wood pells historically, but perhaps they were just tougher than we are...oh wait, that's a definite. I'm not sure if they were hitting them full force...maybe varying degrees of force. Now if you hit a wood pell with a sharp it won't be so bad since the sword will bite into the wood.

OT: I haven't heard about the tendon problems with the carbon fiber hockey sticks, although I've been out of the hockey loop for over a year. The biggest issue was that they would just shatter at the most inopportune time. I've seen more than a few short-handed goals scored because the point-man's stick broke.

[Brent Lambell]

Has anyone tried the Like Steel Wasters from the Spanish group AZEA? Their nylons seem to have very similar characteristics (length, weight, width) but they use some steel parts in the cross guard and pommel. Price is about the same after exchange but before shipping.

http://www.ferruza.com/nylon/en/index.html

We are looking to buy some nylons for the Portland study group and Im curious for feedback. We have only heard great things about With Intent Wasters, so that is always a good option as well.

[Jaron Bernstein]

Has anyone tried the Like Steel Wasters from the Spanish group AZEA? Their nylons seem to have very similar characteristics (length, weight, width) but they use some steel parts in the cross guard and pommel. Price is about the same after exchange but before shipping.

http://www.ferruza.com/nylon/en/index.html

We are looking to buy some nylons for the Portland study group and Im curious for feedback. We have only heard great things about With Intent Wasters, so that is always a good option as well.

I have extensively (every week for over a year) used the With Intent plastics and recommend them as optimal for sparring before anything except blunt steel (which requires a lot more control and people you trust). They are very slippery in the bind (as is steel), have some flex in them and you can go at pretty much full speed and decent force with them since they don't cause injuries the way wood wasters do (although they do sting!). I have extensively used a plastic Brian Hunt messer as well. Brian's plastics tend to be a bit stiffer than the WI ones. Brian Hunt in general makes excellent equipment. I have one of his sparring helmets and two of his bucklers. After years of abuse they are still in excellant condition. Don't know about the Spanish ones you reference.

For wood, NSA wasters are exceptionally well balanced. I have only handled Raven wasters for a limited time (brief flourishes with borrowed ones) and can't comment.

For steel blunts, the Albion Lichtenauer and Meyer are my top picks.

[Axel Pettersson]

Has anyone tried the Like Steel Wasters from the Spanish group AZEA? Their nylons seem to have very similar characteristics (length, weight, width) but they use some steel parts in the cross guard and pommel. Price is about the same after exchange but before shipping.

http://www.ferruza.com/nylon/en/index.html

We are looking to buy some nylons for the Portland study group and Im curious for feedback. We have only heard great things about With Intent Wasters, so that is always a good option as well.

We have used the Like Steel Wasters for several months now (since last summer or so I think), and we love them.

I have tried other nylon wasters from other manufacturers and in general they behave more or less the same, I have not tried Brian Hunts or those from WW but i would suppose there is no big reason they would not behave more or less the same, (they could vary somewhat of course given what type of plastic you use and who makes them, but not too much in comparison with wood).

The one downside with the spanish wasters is that the steel cross (which by the way does not tear up the nylon as we were concerned about at first) can be dangerous in close play or if you throw a murder stroke. One guy from MnHFS punctured his forearm with one in half sword sparring. This can easily be solved by putting rubber stoppers on the end of the cross, and in general I like the steel crossbar as it is not as clumsy as the nylon crosses I have seen (again can't comment on WW or Brian's wasters as I have not seen them), but rubber stoppers are not supplied with the waster.

My advice would be to buy local . We buy most of our nylon wasters from a guy in our club now as it is beneficial for all of us, if your fellow ARMAteers make wasters, support them.

Good luck with your training, I have family in Portland so perhaps I get over the there to train with you one day.