Hanwei Tinker or Federschwert?

[J. Scott Steflik]

I'm looking at getting a pair and was curious if anyone had any experiences.

I've seen the newer federschwerts, but haven't played with them. I do know people that really like them. The Tinker longsword though...? I like that a replacement blade is available, but how does it compare as a trainer and for sparring?

[CalebChow]

Both are inferior to Albion Liechtenauers.

But if you intend on getting a PAIR, that's going to dig pretty deep into your wallet.

[J. Scott Steflik]

Both are inferior to Albion Liechtenauers.

A buddy has the Albion Meyer and I've seen a few others from that line. Very nice trainers. I can't justify the expense at this point though.

There are few decent steel blunts in the group right now. Getting a pair ensures I'll always be able to get someone to drill with me at practice or home.

After thinking about it some more, I ended up getting two of the federschwerts. The thicker edges should hold up better to improper technique and considering the price I'm not going to have to fight the inclination to handle them with kid gloves!

[william_cain_iii]

I've handled both the Federschwert and the Hanwei Tinker Longsword.

Both are very nice weapons for a beginner to cut his teeth on, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Here are some observations that have been entirely up to me:

1 - Ringen.

The Federschwert is big. It has a long blade, an exaggeratedly wide cross, a long hilt, and that bizarre schilt. These are all there for reasons. However, they make it an awkward sword to practice Ringen with. One of my classmates was being thrown during one of the moves, and took a pretty deep scrape across the face, we think from the cross but it may have been the schilt. The move was a bit too fast to see.

2 - Binding

It's hard to do good binding with the Federschwert because of the excessive flex in the weak/foible of the blade. You can still do binding work, we've done so in my little group. However, the Tinker behaves better in the blunt, and again the excessive cross and schilt aren't there to confuse or distort the technique.

3 - Thrusting

The Tinker has a bit of flex in the blade, and is fairly blade-light. My group enjoys it a lot. However, if you're going to be including a good deal of thrusting in your sparring and curriculum (and by no means should you not!), the Feder is probably the better bet for sheer safety. Remember to tape or glue down your rubber thrusting tip (such as with tool-dip) so you don't lose it to a mishap!


Just a word of maintenance on the Tinker Longsword: the cross and the pommel are not stainless steel, so remember to oil them and perform wipedown maintenance along with the blade.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll make the best choice.

[nathan featherstone]

how does the blade on the feder hold up?

[william_cain_iii]

I won't lie, it's not as high a treatment as an Albion's blade.

However, it does hold up well when used like on like.

My group trained with them for several months while drilling with intent, and we put them through a very rigorous sparring test toward the end of my time there. They held up just fine when used like on like, even with some hard strikes. The only flaws we found were that the grips start to come apart (the leather, not the wood) after a few months, and will probably need augmenting somehow (tennis racquet tape, tool dip, etc), and there was a notch in one of the blades that came from an over-enthusiastic zornhau exchange (zorn on zorn bind).

So as far as a beginner's blade goes, yes I would recommend them.

[J. Scott Steflik]

how does the blade on the feder hold up?

I've been using the feders for two months now and they seem to be holding up well. Loaning out my second trainer convinced some other group members to purchase them as well, so we're seeing a lot more steel used and that's trend I hope continues.

As noted above, using like-on-like doesn't seem to be a problem. When going up against the Albion the Hanwei starts to show some marks, but no nicks as of yet, even after taking some serious hits.

The leather on the grip is just glued on, not stitched, so it will start to come off after repeated soakings and prolonged use. Mine haven't yet and I don't really see it as a problem. There are easy fixes (tennis grip, etc) but I'll probably replace with leather again when the time comes (leatherworking is a hobby of mine).

I didn't think I would, but I like the long hilt. Gives you a lot of control to pull blows against your opponent. The blade length is the same as the other trainers we have and I prefer a long cross anyway, so the feder doesn't seem that exaggerated to me. Thrusting with it is a joy

I'll probably end up with a Tinker at some point in the near future, but am leaning toward getting a sharp. I like my current cutter (MRL Great Ouse River Sword) but would prefer something a little heavier and stiffer.

[william_cain_iii]

As much as I know they handle slightly differently than a 'true' longsword, I really want a type XIIa or XIIIa for my cutting blade.

Another note on the 'Federschwert' (I hate that term, but that's what they named the sword). The extensive give in the thrust means you're going to miss some hits. They will connect, but you might not feelthem, particularly if you train in a padded jacket like Jessica Finley's Ringen jacket or a gambeson of some sort. Similarly I was hit in the face of my 3w mask once and didn't realize it til I saw a video after the fact.

[J. Scott Steflik]

As much as I know they handle slightly differently than a 'true' longsword, I really want a type XIIa or XIIIa for my cutting blade.

I'm more of a XVa or XVIa type of guy myself Albion sells some bare blades (they have a 36" type XVI that's tempting me now) and I beleive had a XIIa up for sale a month or two ago. If you're comfortable mounting a blade it's an inexpensive way to get a high quality blade. The blade still requires the final finish work to get rid of the mill marks, but that's relatively easy (could just be my background as a bladesmith talking here)

The extensive give in the thrust means you're going to miss some hits.

If the thrust is in good range (at least 3" of 'penetration') there shouldn't be an issue feeling the hit. I'll accept the possibility of a missed hit for the safety in practicing extensive use of the thrust though! I took a thrust to the throat with a modified shinai and feel lucky that I only had pain swallowing for 3 weeks. That was through the bib of a 1600N fencing mask and a padded collar.

[william_cain_iii]

Much prefer to get a complete blade, I've very few craft oriented skills.

Looking at the Christian Fletcher Kriegschwert and Malatesta myself. Gorgeous swords, and they come with a scabbard unlike an albion, and unlike an albion are sanely-priced for a beginner!

As to the thrusting issue, the guy gut me a really good thrust to the face by the video, and I never once felt it. Both of us were surprised by the hit upon viewing the material, neither of us remembered it.

I'm not saying it's a "don't get it" point for the sword, more of allowing for an awareness of its limitations. It's a good tool. Needs some modifications to be reasonable (those hooks on the shilt are -idiotic-), but is bar none the best overall low-budget tool out there. Behaves better than a waster in most respects, is priced comparably to good wasters, and is steel so it'll survive most beginner abuses.

[Matt_Conner]

I've been using one of the Tinker/Hanwei blunts for a few weeks now. Handles well, very narrow grip, feels a little lighter than the Albion Lichtenauer, narrower tip as well. Comes with VERY squared edges, but it's not hard to knock the corners off and get a decent round with a little bit of filing. It's held up decently well in practice against Albions, although I've had to smooth out a few small nicks, again just a few minutes with a file.

[J. Scott Steflik]

I've been abusing the federschwerts for some time now and have very few complaints. Five others in the group have purchased them as well, which was my hope when I started passing them around.

I have serious reservations about heavy sparring with the Tinker/Hanwei longsword, at least the one I have. The edges are blunt, but I'd classify it more as an 'unsharpened' blade rather than a 'training blunt' I like the way it handles, though it's a bit short for my tastes, and the matching sharp is excellent. It's holding up OK for drilling (after rounding the edges). Two new guys just purchased it... I think mostly b/c they couldn't bear the looks of the federschwert!

The feders will be the standard trainer in the group I'm starting - if I have anything to say about it