New Forum Member and Training Question

[James Dillaplain]

Hi I'm new to this forum and am looking to become a member but before I do I have a few questions...
First, is there a kind of training schedule someone could recommend that I should be able to do before joining ARMA to see if I'm ready?
Second, is there a certain text I should get to study first?
And finally, is there a certain weapon or goal I should start with first and if so where should I get one and for how much?
All responses are appreciated.

[CalebChow]

I'd recommend reading up on the articles on our website and watching the all the videos made by ARMA, all of which can be found in the Index tab up top.

They give a huge amount of useful information and give a basic impression as to what the art looks like.

I can't necessarily recommend any one text that would be best, but http://schielhau.org/ has a decent collection of translated texts. I found Joachim Meyer's text to be helpful when I first started, although finding a group is absolutely essential.

As for weapon, all you really need is a good waster. This waster is probably the most frequently used in ARMA:

http://www.newstirlingarms.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=9

I think both this shorter version and the long version are fine.

If you have a lot of cash at your disposal, however, absolutely nothing in the world at the moment can top this:

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/alb ... enauer.htm

For learning purposes we all start with the longsword because it involves using both hands and also because we have the most material available on that weapon.

Find a study group as soon as possible; they'll fill you in on everything you'll need. Good luck!

[James Dillaplain]

Thank you for responding, I will look at the sources and videos on the website.
I didn't think that the wasters would be so expensive...that's far more then I had thought.

[Doug Marnick]

And of course check out the tab on top that says Where to Start. Very helpful with lots of in-site links. Good luck!

[Jonathan Newhall]

Sorry I got to this late, I was once a beginner (heck, still am :p) much like yourself.

Wasters will vary in cost and quality, as will steel blunts (non-sharp swords), but what was linked is pretty much the be-all end-all of both categories. New Stirling Arms wasters are top of the line material (I've been using mine for ~2 years now, one year of which it's been undergoing some pretty brutal contact with all manner of materials - not a single problem with it aside from the minor dents and dings you'd expect).

It's often recommended that you just save for the Albion steel blunt when it comes to practice swords, and if you can't afford that, then spend ~100 dollars on a waster from New Stirlin Arms. If you can't afford THAT, then practice your footwork and wrestling until you can

At the very least once you begin practicing with another person you're going to need some head protection (although other areas are recommended, at the very least you need some kind of fencing mask/helmet), but alone all you need is the waster or blunt.


There are a few good books on the subject (I believe on the main page of this site there is a list of links to some of those - the more recent the better!), and the central weapon to the arts we study is without a doubt the longsword. As mentioned, its core concepts apply pretty easily to all manner of weapons and there's a lot of available material. Of course feel free to read through the articles on this website, as well as watch all of the available videos. If you do end up joining the organization I can assure you there's a lot more help available on the members' site and e-list.


As for a training schedule, if you can devote an hour a day, or at least a couple hours a week, to intense physical activity you're more than qualified in terms of scheduling.

[william_cain_iii]

http://ensifer.carbonmade.com/

Great training weapons. Comparable to Albions for durability, better overall design because you can get a good foil shape instead of the meyer's ridiculous flared schilt, a rolled tip for safer thrusting, and a fraction of the price. 120 euros for the Light Blade 'standard feder' model.

Just email the guy with your requirements and order type, he'll have you a sword in about three months.

[Sal Bertucci]

See post is ringen section.

[Ian Mac Pharlaine]

http://ensifer.carbonmade.com/

Great training weapons. Comparable to Albions for durability, better overall design because you can get a good foil shape instead of the meyer's ridiculous flared schilt, a rolled tip for safer thrusting, and a fraction of the price. 120 euros for the Light Blade 'standard feder' model.

Just email the guy with your requirements and order type, he'll have you a sword in about three months.

How much for his meyer foil, blunt XV, and sharp swords?

EDIT-- btw, how do you convert USD to Euros for payment? Just send him enough in USD to cover the conversion overseas? Can you do that with paypal?

[william_cain_iii]

Training Messers cost 120 euro. (more then 10 - 110 euro)
One of our group contacted Ensifer and got some info from him. Here is what he sent us.

Standard Feders

Light (1350g) - cost 160 euro If you order more then 10 - 150 euro per each.

Heavy (1550g) - cost 190 euro, if you order more then 10 – 180 euro per each.

Difference is in thickness and distribution of mass.

Light blade is safer during sparring and it is quicker (Center of
Gravity 4,5 cm from guard, better flexibility - it is not whippy)

Heavy blade has less vibration and better control on bind. Besides strikes are harder.
Thick blade is more time consuming during forging and grinding. That's why is more expensive.


Talhoffer - high finish version of Feder 280 euro.
Joachim Meyer Feder – 320 euro
Sparring XVa Sword 320 euro (with hilt furniture like Talhoffer
Feder)
Custom XVa Sparing Sword - 400 euro.
TRAINING MESSERS
Training Messers cost 120 euro. (more then 10 - 110 euro)

SHIPING
Shipping depends on weight ( for example 2 Feders shipment to Switzerland cost about 50 euro)


TERMS
When I finish my work, I let you know. As soon as I recive money, I will send package.


This all from an email he sent when inquiring.

Paypal will convert currencies for you, but I think you need to do the calculations in an off-site converter.

[Ian Mac Pharlaine]

hmmm. given the prices, I might refer them to beginners since you say they are better than hanweis but fall short of the albions. I'm actually kind of weary about buying the meyer/talhoffer/blunt blades because given the prices you could just save up an extra $100 and get a much better albion that would look and handle better. Just take the albion meyer/mair and grind the schilt down a bit and youre good to go.

The messers are really tempting, but im not too crazy about the shape of the blade... it tapers WAY too much to be a "chopper". For the price im sure they are of passable quality and handle well. Beats paying $600 for the amazing albion messer though that thing will make you faint from the pleasure of wielding it.

[william_cain_iii]

Honestly, I'll contest your point that the Albion training swords look better than that XVa. Though I don't really think it's an XVa - XVas have no fuller. More of a XVIa like Albion's Crecy or Brescia Spadona.

Back to my point - I've handled the Meyer and the Liechtenaeur albion trainers, and I'll tell you that they don't look near as good as that custom XVa trainer he's selling. It has a leather grip, those don't. It has a closer to historical shape than those, if that's a concern as well. Not sure how it HANDLES, but I'll argue that it looks a damn sight better.

But yeah, the Light Feders that Jan sells on Ensifer? For 220ish USD you get a much better sword than the Hanwei Federschwert, and still less than half the cost of the comparable Albion.

I personally REALLY want the Joachim Meyer or Talhoffer feder that Jan sells, but I can't afford a new sword right now. Passing up a sharp test-cutter that's going for 210 on My Armory too...it's depressing.

[Ian Mac Pharlaine]

yeah... all these pretty shiny things... and no $$$ to spend

If I had the money id drop on a few sharp cut and thrusts, a few sharp albions, a few more feders and blunts from various vendors.... but alas.

anyways, as fas as handling goes, just how bad do these "suffer" in your opinion.

And yeah, a custom blunt that looks like a real sharp is always good for a looker. I just hope they handle better. And I think the meyer should definitely handle the best out of all the feders given its price compared to the other feders... not too crazy about that completely spherical pommel though...

[william_cain_iii]

Haven't had a chance to handle 'em, sadly. Seen youtube videos, had people whose opinions I respect make good commentary on them, but haven't been so fortunate as to grab one myself and swing it about.

A note on the messer - there were thrusting oriented messers out there, and the choice of blade taper seems to be so it could be made thrusting-safe. So far as I can tell, it won't affect technique any - there's plenty of blade surface to swing, it has a nagel, seems sufficiently messerlike.

Main advantage is of course being about a third of the price of the Marxbruder.

I really think the Albion mythos has been built up beyond the point the company can sustain it. Take the Liechtenaeur. It's a good sword, I've trained with them a couple of times. Wouldn't pick one over my Tinker blunt longsword though, because it's so damn stiff I feel the need to seriously pull my thrusts, and that distorts my technique a lot. The safe-flex in the Tinker lets me train closer to the way I want to.

Some comparably good but more flexible options such as the Ensifers seem to be just what the market wants. The divide has been between high class high price and low rent but easy entry equipment for such a long time, the market for a middlegrade tool seems just about to be here. Just my two cents on it anyway.

...I still want a Munich.