Telegraphing and footwork

[Matt Easton]

I find that in Fiore's two-handed sword telegraphing is less of an issue because most blows form a cover when they are complete anyway, and from that cover, every technique we see in pictures (from the incrossada) comes anyway, so if your opponent does anticipate you, then we are given tens of techniques to pull out of the hat anyway, be it from gioco largo or gioco stretto.

Matt

[Matt Easton]

p.s. In Fiore I think there are times when the weapon/hand moves first, times when the foot passes first, times when they are more or less together and probably just about every other combination you could think of.
I think this is why medieval masters did not talk about this - because different times are relevant to different circumstances and techniques.
For an example, in the Getty version of Tutta Denti di Cinghiale (Full Boar's Tooth to Anglophiles), Fiore tells us that he can thrust upwards and return with a fendente, or he can thurst upwards with a pass at the same time.
In the use of Tutta Denti di Cinghiale later he describes two foot movements in the rebatter and counter - a small step off to the right with the lead (right) foot, and then a pass with the rear (left) foot. The traverse is critical to the strong rebatter, if the cross/rebatter is formed before the lead foot has moved to the side, then the weapon often becomes to narrow spaced, and consequentally weak in defence.
This is also true for the use of Posta di Choda Longa with the spada a uno mano (sword one handed).

Matt

[Guest]

Good point Matt, anyone who has done much sparring knows that your first strike likely will not succeed. He will likely displace you, void the attack, bind you,or in some other way cover himself no matter how quick you are. If your attack ends in a position to follow on with another technique, you have maintained the initiative, as Ringeck so strongly urges. I think that's why Fiore, Talhoffer, Lichtenaeur, all the masters essentially taught techniques which are really transitions from one guard or fighting position to another.

[Guest]

Hi Folks

The following points may help in spotting Telegraphing.

1. Some people look at where they are about to attack just before they do it, look for this.
2. Some "build themselves up" before they attack, look for this.
3. Some people breath in quick just before they attack. (not common)
4. Some have only a couple of attacks "in them" and once you have seen them, you know them.
5. Some people make aggressive noises before they attack.
6. Some send messages with their whole body that something is about to happen, finish reading the novel first before you respond. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />
7. Some people make a little step with the front foot to prelude the attack.
8. see the previous posts for other instances.
9. Some people will do all the above BECAUSE they are feinting.

Hope that helps some where.

Col
ARMA Norway.

[Jared L. Cass]

I too tend to telegraph (like most of us I'm sure)! Another clue to look for is a slight "cocking" of the limb instantly befor an attack is made, I'm notorious for this. Also in reguards to Colin Richards # 1 response " Some people look....area they attack" a great way to use this for personal advantage is to practice looking down and attacking up/looking up and attacking down. This technique works just as well whether you are armed or unarmed. It's especially handy when using a very quick weapon like the spear. One extra note that is great for exparimentation is this equation: limb befor body=speed, and body befor limb=power.
Jared L Cass, Wisconsin

[Guest]

In George Silver intro to paradoxes of defence I beleave he says "Look to the grip of your enemy, & upon his slip take such ward as best fit your hand, from which ward strike or thrust, still remebering your governors". I beleave that he is trying to say that you can telegraph your advisary's move by watching his hands. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Richard Strey]

To add to Colin's list:
Some people tend to change their stance prior to an attack. Mostly this seems to come from the fact that they stand with their center of gravity too far up. Before launching a blow, they'll "crouch". On the other hand, I've used just that behavior to fool others. Works great.

[Patrick Hardin]

Also to add to Colin's list:
I have encountered several people who start to level the point of their sword if they are about to thrust.
I have also noticed, when fighting newcomers, that sometimes they have a bad habit of watching the blade of my sword intently, making it easy to lead them around and use feints, and just generally confuse them.

Patrick Hardin

[Randall Pleasant]

Patrick Hardin
I have encountered several people who start to level the point of their sword if they are about to thrust.

Might we also say that the real problem is that these people are keeping their point too hight when in the Pflug guard? In other words, I think it is safe to say that maintaining correct body and weapon position in any guard helps to eliminate telegraphing your intentions.

[TimSheetz]

Randall,

you wrote: "I think it is safe to say that maintaining correct body and weapon position in any guard helps to eliminate telegraphing your intentions. "

I totally agree. You can thrust EXTREMELY EFFECTIVELY from Pflug with no warning.

Tim

[Matt Easton]

Or Posta Breve.. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> And in fact this is exactly what Fiore tells us it does:

"Posta Breve, Stabile

This is Posta Breve, which requires a long sword. .....'of a malicious guard'; which does not have stability. Also, it always moves and considers if he can enter with the point/thrust and with a step against the fellow. And this guard is more used in armour than without armour."


Matt