Other Historical European Martial Arts

[Justin Lompado]

We all talk about, write about, practice etc. historical European martial arts. However, I have never seen anything on this website dedicated to fighting skills pre Dark Ages. Most everything is on medieval and renaissance weapons and traditions. Perhaps it is because so much information exists from this time period. I was wondering if anything exists from before the fall of Rome; meaning, does anyone practice serious re-creation of ancient Greek and Roman fighting arts? In terms of significance, there is nothing more essential to Western and European history than Ancient Greece and Rome, and of course their militaries. Some information on this would be good, and I think we would all benefit from learning the original European martial arts if its possible.

[JeffGentry]

Justin

I think Gene Tausk was/is doing some work on the Roman Gladius, I do not know what for sure, we do look at pre Med./Ren., Mike cartier has a fantastic website on Pankration.


This particular website is strictly for Med./Ren martial art's though so there isn't much on the site about pre Med./Ren.

Jeff

[Gene Tausk]

We all talk about, write about, practice etc. historical European martial arts. However, I have never seen anything on this website dedicated to fighting skills pre Dark Ages. Most everything is on medieval and renaissance weapons and traditions. Perhaps it is because so much information exists from this time period. I was wondering if anything exists from before the fall of Rome; meaning, does anyone practice serious re-creation of ancient Greek and Roman fighting arts? In terms of significance, there is nothing more essential to Western and European history than Ancient Greece and Rome, and of course their militaries. Some information on this would be good, and I think we would all benefit from learning the original European martial arts if its possible.

Senor Gentry is correct that I have worked out a program for the Gladius (and still working on it!). However, we in ARMA devote ourselves to the Mid/Renn periods because of the training manuals available which give us an opportunity to work with a literary tradition so we can back up our hypotheses from working documents. In other words, we have written documentation to form a working martial arts system.

Both Mike C (for his excellent Pankration site) and me use iconographic images to try and reconstruct techniques. However, this is much different from using the written descriptions available in the fechtbuchen.

Make sense?

[Brian Hunt]

Hi Gene,

are you using a scutum with your gladius?

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Allen Johnson]

I also spend alot of time on the 18th century Scottish baskethilt. We dont really approach it much in our studies but there are several related manuals hosted here...which I'm very grateful for

[LafayetteCCurtis]

The problem about the unavailability of historical manuals from said time periods is certainly a very serious one, since extrapolation from historical accounts and artwork is a more difficult (and tedious) task than direct interpretation of extant manuals. If Gene is brave enough to tackle the job, two thumbs up to him.

BTW, is there an online version/outline/state-of-current-research page on that gladius program? I'd certainly be interested to have a look, and it'd largely obviate the need for an off-topic discussion on the ARMA site.

[Mike Cartier]

yes my website is http://www.historical-pankration.com
i have a few articles on the reserach methodology and general outlines of the art.
Gene is right iconographic work is alot different than working from instructional manuals, but luckily with Pankration i have modern NHB sport fighting to use as a reference.

[Justin Lompado]

yes my website is http://www.historical-pankration.com
i have a few articles on the reserach methodology and general outlines of the art.
Gene is right iconographic work is alot different than working from instructional manuals, but luckily with Pankration i have modern NHB sport fighting to use as a reference.

Mike

I am well aware of your great website; I have it in my favorites list. I pretty much forsaw the responses everyone gave; meaning that there are no real manuals to study from that exist like those of the medieval/renaissance era.
In any case, I was really more interested in armed work, like Gene's gladius work, as opposed to the unarmed Pankration. It would be nice if we could re-create hoplites like knights and men-at-arms!

[Gene Tausk]

yes my website is http://www.historical-pankration.com
i have a few articles on the reserach methodology and general outlines of the art.
Gene is right iconographic work is alot different than working from instructional manuals, but luckily with Pankration i have modern NHB sport fighting to use as a reference.

Mike

I am well aware of your great website; I have it in my favorites list. I pretty much forsaw the responses everyone gave; meaning that there are no real manuals to study from that exist like those of the medieval/renaissance era.
In any case, I was really more interested in armed work, like Gene's gladius work, as opposed to the unarmed Pankration. It would be nice if we could re-create hoplites like knights and men-at-arms!

Anyone who is interested, PM me and I will send off what I have.

[Steven Blakely]

I have discovered that in my studies to find the axe that there is very little in historicle knowledge in axe fighting. I believe that in some instances we must glean what we can from what little resources we have. Then make up the rest as we go. After all it all had to start somewhere. If you have had any sword fighting training in a similiar weapon take that knowledge and try to build from it. Experience is the best teacher.