the structure of a practice session

[Axel Pettersson]

There was a discussion concerning this at a the recent Swordfish WMA event here in Gothenburg. Over the last 8-9 months, we have been structuring our classes similar to that of a boxing or mma gym. That is, a normal session looks something like this:

10-15 minutes warmup, running, jumping, combined with pull ups etc,
then physical workout (exlposive), stations, each stations /50 seconds

pair exercizes 10-15 minutes, wheelbarrow and the like, kama sutra push ups.

after that technical drills, adding more and more variables to avoid thepractice to get too static. about 30-40 minutes

then free sparring, around 40 minutes.

Ending with strenght workout again (mostly static) for 10-20 minutes, followed by stretching.


The reasoning behind this approach is along the lines of: "since this is similar to how an mma class is structured, and mma is "put up or shut up" oriented (ie you have to prove through sparring/bouting what you can do) and we have that same philosophy there must be something in it.

There is alot of emphasis on physical fitness in the approach we are following now, and though it might limit the time spent on technical skills, it is my sincere opinion that the skill and intensity in our fencing has really improved as our physique has upped. In other words, after 9 months I cannot see that our technical skills have suffered, but that our actual performance have gained.

To counter that problem of less time focused on technical aspects. there is also the division that, after the warm up, the explosive physical part is for the advanced group only, as the beginners practice techniques. This way everyone is guaranteed to get sufficient time learning techniques etc.

I am very interested in how other people structure their classes.
How do you structure your practice session? Do you include physical workout in your practice sessions, or do you expect your practitioners to do that outside of class? Do you have different approaches for different students according to skill/experience? What is your opinion on the role of fitness in HEMA?

cheers/Axel

[Mike Cartier]

we generally start our sessions with 3o mins (roughly) of weapon drilling. That is cutting in the air and various ARMA drills and Meyer drills for longsword, Dusack, Polearms, Rappier and sword & buckler with an emphasis on footwork.

Then we usually work technique related to which ever weapon we are working on (or on all weapon day we work techniques which apply across all multiple weapons) This is usually a bunch of guards, strike and devices from the Meyer book.

this drilling and technique portion of the class lasts roughly from 10 am to 12.30 - 1pm. Then we do a line up for sparring and the senior members fight everyone with various methods one after another (like a prize playing)

Then we break it up into more relaxed sparring and everyone gets to weork on what they want to.
We also have something we call a fight lottery, we have cards made of all the Kunst Des Fechten weaponry and we can choose a card each and create a mixmatched fight like Dagger or ringen vs polearms or longsword or whataver. so the class goes from 10 am to 12.30 with drilling and technique and then close to an hour of sparring.

We are working on restructuring the technique portion of the class to mirror more of what style of learning we do in MMA (yes I train MMA)
What i like about the MMA approach is its practicality.
For example we will learn a technique like a single leg takedown or clinch and work it back and forth a bunch of times as well as the counter.
Then we start the sparring with this position so that we are forced to work that position in sparring.

Another thing i wish to bring over from MMA is a focus on fewer techniques learned to keep focus better, we have a tendancy to try to do all the Meyer longsword strikes or all the stuff we can within a weapon during technique time which is not the best way to have it sink in.

Incidently if you love MMA then you should look at my much neglected (by me) Pankration website which attempts to show the true depth of technique and conmpetetion in the ancient worold for No Hold Barred.
http://historical-pankration.com I have been too busy to work on it much the last few years but i do activly use some of the concepts when i fight MMA with my buddies.

Incidently i don't like the name MMA, I prefer freestyle fighting or really its original names like Vale Tudo, NHB or really its true name which is pankration. But its just names its just that MMA tends top refer to the more modern rule encrusted sport than the old anything goes stuff which is much more refelctive of the chaos of combat.

[JeremyDillon]

We also have something we call a fight lottery, we have cards made of all the Kunst Des Fechten weaponry and we can choose a card each and create a mixmatched fight like Dagger or ringen vs polearms or longsword or whataver.

That's a great idea. We try to do some mixed weapon fighting, but that seems like a good way to get people to leave their comfort zone and fight with weapons they're less familiar with.

[Stewart Sackett]

Our group tends to borrow some of its structure from what I’ve seen training in BJJ & MMA, which is interesting given that our schedule is quite different from the one Axel described.

In the case of both MMA & our ARMA group the general opinion is that given the limited time we have to train as a group the focus should be on those aspects of the work that require a partner to train. We leave general calisthenics for other times & focus on getting our workout by training the techniques.

In BJJ my classes have always started with a slow roll (wrestling for position, beginning on the knees & at a low intensity) to warm up. MMA classes usually follow suit or start with a boxing drill. In ARMA we warm up with press drills & then with some Greco-Roman clinch drills. After everyone is warm we move on to the main curriculum of the day be it Longsword, Ringen, rondel, etc. (our group has been focusing on 1 weapon per meeting).

We use a simple system called the “I” method. We chose some techniques we want to explore. Introduce them by examining the fightbook they comes from, discussing the techniques & practicing them with a compliant partner a few times until we understand the basic concept. Then we drill the techniques in Isolation for most of the meeting; trying to apply them with free movement against a resisting partner. At the end of training we do free sparring with whatever weapon we have just been studying. During sparring we try to Integrate what we’ve just drilled into our fighting repertoire. Introduction, Isolation, Integration.

We also try to always finish up with some Longsword sparring, even if we haven’t done much with that weapon during the rest of the meeting.

[ChristineChurches]

We also believe that fitness is important in our group, however, due to the various schedules of our study group members (Las Vegas being a 24 hour town), we, too, try to make the most out of the time we have together by only doing drills which require partners at our formal practice on Saturdays. We emphasize that it is necessary to do your solo drills at home to free up time at practice for things you can't do alone.

Because most of our members are fairly new, the first hour is warmup and various longsword drills - we try to vary these from week to week. The second hour we do bouts of freeplay structured to keep the group involved, so those not fighting are always preparing to fight. The rest of our practice is devoted to studying the topic of the week, whether it be a weapon, master, or a specific technique that needs more work.

We structured our practice this way because of our members schedules. We found that if we don't put time limits on drilling, members with time constraints never get to freeplay.

BTW, Mike - the Kunst des Fechten cards - cool idea!

Christine

[Keith Culbertson]

it can be very gratifying for a team/group to gain fitness together and encourage each other along the way if there is ample time. However, we often have so little time for skills and freeplay that after teaching numerous methods and always open for questions, I prefer to spend only a bit of time on explosive/dynamic warmup drills and flexibility preps and then get to the meat while leaving fitness as a personal duty.

in any case, vary whatever activities you do over time as the body does get in a rut after a while

best

[Stacy Clifford]

In our class we always start with about 30 minutes of longsword exercises with intent.

1. Tipogressions: 1-2 minutes

2. 8-Cut Exercises:
Original - 5 times
Provo Version - 5 times
Houston Version - 5 times

3. 16 or 18-Cut Exercise: 3 times

4. Any Four Cutting Exercises: 20 times each
(Examples: vertical cuts, X-cuts, zwerches, unterhau-oberhau, etc. ... have fun with it, make stuff up)
Thrusts: 10 from left & 10 from right (pick a guard, any guard)

Water break

5. Rotating Exercises (1 each week): 5 minutes
Touch Drill
Press Drill
Footwork Exercises

6. Running Pell Attack: Set up a pell at one end of the room, line up and charge the pell from across the room one at a time and hit it while running past using different attacks, then run back to the end of the line. 8 passes, 2 passes per attack type.

After this we do an hour to an hour and a half of partner drills for whatever curriculum we are studying currently, then spar for 30 minutes to an hour individually, circled up or group combat. Every 8th week is sparring night all night since we sign up for 8 week sessions at the facility we practice in.

I think general exercises like pushups and such should be left to people to do on their own outside of class, but doing sword-related exercises in class serves a couple of different purposes. Besides making everybody sweat, it gives everyone a common, consistent standard of effort and skill to keep up with. The newer students see what they are expected to be able to do, and it makes sure the senior students never stop practicing basic skills. It also seems to be pretty good for weeding out lazy people before they hang around too long and get annoying.

I like some of the other ideas I see listed here too and we may have to try some of them. The fight lottery idea is definitely cool, thanks Mike!

[Will Adamson]

The fight lottery thing reminds me of something we did in the Army, but for exercises. Take a deck of cards and have each person draw a card when it comes their turn. One suit for upper body, the other for lower. The number on the card is how many reps with Aces being twenty. The person drawing the card chooses the particular exercise.

You could adapt this to be either cutting exercises or general fitness exercises.

[JeremyDillon]

How many times a week do you guys generally have group practice?

[Axel Pettersson]

Thanks for all the response, I think this is a very interesting subject to discuss as it really affects what kind of fighter you become (if you become one!)

Mike,

thanks for the tips, there are some really cool ideas there that I will try out in class (the fight lottery sounds great, we need to get some more mixed weapons sparring).

I agree with you on the focus on fewer techniques, it might not always be as fun, but more rewarding over time, eventually you get around to learning most of them anyway if you practice often. I think I have become better at applying proper technique during stress and with many variables (sparring) since our change of class structure, which includes more focus on fewer techniques at each class.

I will check out the pancration site, thanks for the link. I do like MMA alot, something I find is common among many of the HEMA practitioners I have met (same mentality and focus on practicality perhaps?).

Stewart, Chrisitine and Keith (on the subject you all address)

thanks for your reply,

I agree that it would be ideal to be able to focus strictly on HEMA practice at HEMA practice sessions . Unfortunately we have found that many people simply do not have the time to do other forms of workout outside of regular practice, or they lack the motivation that comes from group practice. A careful balance is needed of course (as in anything).

In GHFS we have a curriculum that is strictly Ringeck (longsword and wrestling) and principles from Doebringer that runs for a year and then goes back to basics and start over again (sabre, dagger and pugilism being separate courses), due to that if you miss something it will show up the same time next year. Perhaps this is why we feel that putting this much time on physical, not strictly HEMA workout works for us. We try to identify ourselves as HEMA practitioners applying modern methods to some areas to help us improve. I would like to see our club as a HEMA gym (like a boxing gym or MMA gym) but that is probably an incorrect description .

Stacy,

great exercises! I remember the 8 cut drills from ARMA practice, those are great. Floryshes and cutting exercises with intent is also something the beginners class utilize alot (atleast when Im coaching it ).

I am all for doing as many exercises as possible with sword in hand, the more time wielding a sword the better, (I got this from soccer practice, doing push ups with hands on the soccer ball etc, I guess many are familiar with the concept)

Jeremy,

we practice 4 times/week a 2hours/session. The hall is also open on Saturdays and Wednesdays, so some of us invite other MA's for unarmed sparring sessions on those occasions.

All,

there is a youtube clip showing the different phases of our regular practice, I can't access youtube atm but I will link it here when I can, it might help to clarify what I mean, English is not my native language.

cheers/A

[Gene Tausk]

There was a discussion concerning this at a the recent Swordfish WMA event here in Gothenburg. Over the last 8-9 months, we have been structuring our classes similar to that of a boxing or mma gym. That is, a normal session looks something like this:

10-15 minutes warmup, running, jumping, combined with pull ups etc,
then physical workout (exlposive), stations, each stations /50 seconds

pair exercizes 10-15 minutes, wheelbarrow and the like, kama sutra push ups.

after that technical drills, adding more and more variables to avoid thepractice to get too static. about 30-40 minutes

then free sparring, around 40 minutes.

Ending with strenght workout again (mostly static) for 10-20 minutes, followed by stretching.


The reasoning behind this approach is along the lines of: "since this is similar to how an mma class is structured, and mma is "put up or shut up" oriented (ie you have to prove through sparring/bouting what you can do) and we have that same philosophy there must be something in it.

There is alot of emphasis on physical fitness in the approach we are following now, and though it might limit the time spent on technical skills, it is my sincere opinion that the skill and intensity in our fencing has really improved as our physique has upped. In other words, after 9 months I cannot see that our technical skills have suffered, but that our actual performance have gained.

To counter that problem of less time focused on technical aspects. there is also the division that, after the warm up, the explosive physical part is for the advanced group only, as the beginners practice techniques. This way everyone is guaranteed to get sufficient time learning techniques etc.

I am very interested in how other people structure their classes.
How do you structure your practice session? Do you include physical workout in your practice sessions, or do you expect your practitioners to do that outside of class? Do you have different approaches for different students according to skill/experience? What is your opinion on the role of fitness in HEMA?

cheers/Axel

I'm surprised no one has mentioned stretching. Stretching before a workout is, IMHO, the most valuable pre-workout preparation one can do.

The Southsiders work out for 3 hours every Saturday and we spend 20 minutes stretching. This helps prepare your body for the strenuous and physical workout that is part of an ARMA practice session.

[Jaron Bernstein]

Since the IG we have taken a more "back to basics" approach. Here is a typical format:

1. WMA specific leg stretches
2. 50 hindu squats
3. roll falls
4. touch drill (different versions)
5. press drill (different versions)
6. tiprogressions
7. flourishing
8. specific technique training on 2-3 selected techniques
9. sparring

[Stacy Clifford]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned stretching. Stretching before a workout is, IMHO, the most valuable pre-workout preparation one can do.

The Southsiders work out for 3 hours every Saturday and we spend 20 minutes stretching. This helps prepare your body for the strenuous and physical workout that is part of an ARMA practice session.

I always spend a few minutes doing fencing stretches and arm stretches before class, but we leave stretching up to the individual, and you've seen how physical our workout is. I agree that stretching has some value (obviously since I do it), but I've also seen articles suggesting that it is not really as beneficial as once thought, that simply getting the muscles moving and warm achieves the same effect, so I consider it optional but recommended. We usually arrive early enough for everybody to have time to stretch before class starts if they want.

Incidentally, we have one class per week on Wednesday nights, officially from 7:30-9:30, unofficially 7:00-10:00 or whenever they kick us out.

[Roy Robinson Stewart]

In line with the idea of tactical scenario training, how about sparring first occasionally, to simulate unexpected attacks ?

.

[Alan Abu Bakr]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned stretching. Stretching before a workout is, IMHO, the most valuable pre-workout preparation one can do.

Actually isn't stretching more a thing you should do after workout?