Practice with sharps: advice?

[Ciaran Daly]

Hi gentlemen. I expect my Albion Talhoffer within a week or so and wanted to pick all of your brains about the extent of the solo work one should do with valued sharps.

Obviously, there are florishes and tipogressions, and test cutting. I did see a video of Mr. Clements going at the pell vigorously with that very same sword and wanted to ask whether such use was a good idea long term from an economic standpoint. The sword is a significant investment for me and I won't soon be able to afford another. Should I avoid such heavy contact with it or will regular contact with a wooden pell be relatively harmless? I'm not buying it to hang on my wall after all.

For context, I do own a wooden waster and will probably purchase Albion's Meyer some time next year.

[Ciaran Daly]

Having searched the forum a bit more it seems I have my answer: Mr. Johnsson evidently intended (if I can take the liberty of paraphrasing) the blade to be a light cutter against unarmored targets and a good thruster against armored ones.

Suffice it to say that I think I've learned from Mr. Clements' test-drive not to go to town on an unpadded pell with it or go about cutting saplings!

[Roy Robinson Stewart]

I'm wondering along the same lines as yourself regarding my of new Atrims (1403 & 1506 ) perhaps padding the pell with some old carpet ?

[Awesome King.]

I'm wondering along the same lines as yourself regarding my of new Atrims (1403 & 1506 ) perhaps padding the pell with some old carpet ?

Or thick tubes of strong foam? That seems to work fine.

[Matt Bryant]

I am in the same boat as you are concerning this. I won't be able to afford another accurate reproduction for a while yet (and I refuse to buy any kind of wall hanger or inaccurate "Sword-like Object"). So economy and preserving this valuable tool is one of the things I keep in mind.

I don't pell at all with my sharp (Thalhoffer). I would think that you would quickly eat through any foam put around that pell.

I use it for solo drills such as t-progressions, flouryshing and cutting exercises. I mostly use it for test cutting.

[Alan Abu Bakr]

(and I refuse to buy any kind of wall hanger or inaccurate "Sword-like Object")

The only "wallhanger" I've wanted to have (but couldn't afford), is Andúril, from the Lord of the Rings movies. (quite a good looking sword, that)

I would think that you would quickly eat through any foam put around that pell.

I'd guess that the foam, would be quite easy to cut through, compared to a tatami mat, and I know how easily a sword can cut through a tatami mat, after having the, quite enjoyable (and informative), opportunity to test cut on some.
The foam will, most likely, hardly make any difference at all.

[Randall Pleasant]

Hi gentlemen. I expect my Albion Talhoffer within a week or so and wanted to pick all of your brains about the extent of the solo work one should do with valued sharps.

Obviously, there are florishes and tipogressions, and test cutting. I did see a video of Mr. Clements going at the pell vigorously with that very same sword and wanted to ask whether such use was a good idea long term from an economic standpoint. The sword is a significant investment for me and I won't soon be able to afford another. Should I avoid such heavy contact with it or will regular contact with a wooden pell be relatively harmless? I'm not buying it to hang on my wall after all.

For context, I do own a wooden waster and will probably purchase Albion's Meyer some time next year.

Ciaran

Just a friendly reminder about practicing with a sharp. Before each session do a reality check, take time to acknowledge what it is and what it can do to you or someone else, repect it, then have fun. Personally, I never do florishes with my Albion Baron when I'm at home alone. If I ever would screw up I want someone to dial 911 for me.

[Matt Bryant]

That's a good point Randall.

[Ciaran Daly]

Hi gentlemen. I expect my Albion Talhoffer within a week or so and wanted to pick all of your brains about the extent of the solo work one should do with valued sharps.

Obviously, there are florishes and tipogressions, and test cutting. I did see a video of Mr. Clements going at the pell vigorously with that very same sword and wanted to ask whether such use was a good idea long term from an economic standpoint. The sword is a significant investment for me and I won't soon be able to afford another. Should I avoid such heavy contact with it or will regular contact with a wooden pell be relatively harmless? I'm not buying it to hang on my wall after all.

For context, I do own a wooden waster and will probably purchase Albion's Meyer some time next year.

Ciaran

Just a friendly reminder about practicing with a sharp. Before each session do a reality check, take time to acknowledge what it is and what it can do to you or someone else, repect it, then have fun. Personally, I never do florishes with my Albion Baron when I'm at home alone. If I ever would screw up I want someone to dial 911 for me.

Yeah I have vivid memories of the first time I went wrong doing a downward chopping strike with a length of rattan while learning Kali (if it had been a machete I would have taken my leg off at the knee). Believe me, I've had enough sobering moments with blunts not to go crazy with sharps.

[Shane Smith]

(and I refuse to buy any kind of wall hanger or inaccurate "Sword-like Object")

The only "wallhanger" I've wanted to have (but couldn't afford), is Andúril, from the Lord of the Rings movies. (quite a good looking sword, that)

I would think that you would quickly eat through any foam put around that pell.

I'd guess that the foam, would be quite easy to cut through, compared to a tatami mat, and I know how easily a sword can cut through a tatami mat, after having the, quite enjoyable (and informative), opportunity to test cut on some.
The foam will, most likely, hardly make any difference at all.

I've actually found foam rubber to be tougher than grass matts but it still sucks at defeating a sword . I do not use my sharps on a pell. I use my blunts for that and freeplay along with misc. excercises and drills. I do cut and flouryshe with my sharps but only when I'm able to fully control the area I'm in. I do not recommend flouryshing with sharps for most folks and never for beginners but I know the risks and my own limitations.

[s_taillebois]

As noted using a sharp on a pell can be somewhat problematic for the edges, and sometimes the points. Cutting wood, even padded, is not what these implements where designed for...
However pell work and a sharp/blunt has some utility insofar as it gives a better sense of pressure in the bind/winding situation. Especially with the weak of bastard swords, pells do give a better sense of how much closer one would have to to go down the blade. But its still problematic for the finish, and since most use wood for sparring, perhaps not all that relevent.
And as M. Randall noted, there are some issues attendant to using sharps for practice, which would be complicated by unexpected events which might be resultant from a mischance whilst striking a pell. Whether a waster, blunt, sharp or staff...these are weapons and deserve proper caution. Let's leave the accidental disembowlings to the katana, manga, movie contingent.

[Ciaran Daly]

Thanks for the thoughtful and considerate feedback everyone. Test cutting and slow form work when alone is all I think I'll be starting with.

[Richard Strey]

I also find you can considerably lessen the chance for injury by protecting yourself. Long sleeves, long pants, skateboard-style protection for elbows and knees and a fencing mask won't hamper your movement, but will prevent light cuts. And the chance for those is way higher than hitting yourself with an armor-defeating mortstoss.

[Roy Robinson Stewart]

As noted using a sharp on a pell can be somewhat problematic for the edges, and sometimes the points. Cutting wood, even padded, is not what these implements where designed for...

Are you saying that the implements were not designed for war ?

Surely any sword designed for war would be expected to hit wood or steel occasionally ?

.

[Stacy Clifford]

Yes, swords would be expected to hit wood or steel in combat and well made ones can stand up to a fair amount of that, but there are a couple of things to consider. First, hitting a thin wood plank shield attached to a moving arm is a bit different than hitting a thick wooden pell planted in the ground in terms of resistance. Hitting a pell with a sharp would be essentially like trying to chop down a tree, and a sword just isn't an axe. Also, pell work and practice in general are highly repetitive, so you're increasing the wear and tear on your sword by practicing frequently on hard targets. You might throw a few dozen blows in a long fight or a few hundred in a day-long battle, but compare that to tens of thousands of blows in practice over the months and years between actual combats. In combat you're hitting randomly at both soft and hard targets, and battles don't happen all that often generally, whereas practice is almost every day. If the sharp sword takes damage in combat, well it did its job and that's what you got it for anyway. If you beat it up too much in practice, it won't be useful in battle (or test cutting nowadays). Save the abusive banging for blunt practice weapons, that's what they're for.