Fechtschulen Music?

[John_Clements]

I know I have mentioned to several times to our members at events and in email about a research article I have been preparing on this very topic: addressing evidence for a Martial Music theory I have. The article will be ready this year.

JC

[Audra Grapes]

Aaron, you already have my best recommendations for the CD but the one thing I would add that I was never able to get my hands on is "Chaos" by the German band Schelmish (recommended to me by Ben M.) since it is not sold in the US. If anyone can get a hold of this song, I think it would make a great addition!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIQiSZdX8vA

[Stacy Clifford]

One of their other videos had a link to their website, which has an online shop in English. I had no idea Medieval rock existed, but that's pretty cool.

http://www.schelmish.de/osc/catalog/index.php?cPath=21

[Jaron Bernstein]

Aaron, you already have my best recommendations for the CD but the one thing I would add that I was never able to get my hands on is "Chaos" by the German band Schelmish (recommended to me by Ben M.) since it is not sold in the US. If anyone can get a hold of this song, I think it would make a great addition!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIQiSZdX8vA

Just heard this. Wow!! Now that is music to spar to.

[Stacy Clifford]

I stumbled across this band out of Austin late last night and it reminded me of this thread from a few months ago. Perfect group (and website) name, appropriately themed sparring music, and well represented on YouTube:

http://www.swordofdoom.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7OQpUlanE

[John Farthing]

While not actual 'Fechtschulen' music as per the original topic, the following links provide actual campaign songs of the Landsknect regiments in the sixteenth century. Certainly these songs would have been known by many of the fighting men teaching and/or training in the 'Fechtschulen'.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W5Z6Aez6T3c&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=75oM6gTVRYM&feature=related

[s_taillebois]

That and in the original contexts those involved would have been quite familiar with Chansons de Gestes. So it's very probable the musicians shown in the later prints would have been playing those type of songs. So there would have been a conceptual link to the battle songs of the 16th century provided by M. Farthing.
Plus given the tendency of that society to teach by visual and auditory cues, rather than being reliant on the written word, it's very probable the chansons would have been used to link martial training and moral training.
Not dissimilar to the poetic moral lesson prefacing Liechtenauer.
No doubt these may have been played in a manner used for reinforcing martial motions, and that wouldn't be surprising given that the young of the armor plated aristocrats were expected to dance well, seemingly as a precursor to other activities.
In a modern context practice to Lorena McKennitt's "Lullabye" could get a bit strange. However BBC's Early Music Show does seem to work well, at least for my sessions. Catherine Bott has a few CD"s with the music of the era, although these are hard to find in the US.

[Jaron Bernstein]

Aaron, you already have my best recommendations for the CD but the one thing I would add that I was never able to get my hands on is "Chaos" by the German band Schelmish (recommended to me by Ben M.) since it is not sold in the US. If anyone can get a hold of this song, I think it would make a great addition!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIQiSZdX8vA

Found it!! www.mp3fiesta.com and do a search by letter for Schelmish.

[Vance Osterhout]

While not actual 'Fechtschulen' music as per the original topic, the following links provide actual campaign songs of the Landsknect regiments in the sixteenth century. Certainly these songs would have been known by many of the fighting men teaching and/or training in the 'Fechtschulen'.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W5Z6Aez6T3c&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=75oM6gTVRYM&feature=related

Campaign songs are great. There's no greater feeling than marching down the road singing about how awesome you are.

[s_taillebois]

Campaign songs are great. There's no greater feeling than marching down the road singing about how awesome you are"

M. Osterhout, quite astute observation.

And in the period being discussed group morale could hinge on such things as songs, a bit of old cloth, or a young girl as a spiritual mascot.

And I'd wonder if the fight school musicians (at least in England anyway) used such as the "Agincourt Carol La Route Au Beziers" for something such as a transition or break between bouts. Obviously martial, but not something which would seem to work well for setting rapid movements be that on a field or training area. As intensely physical as the arts of the sword are, it would seem also very valuable to condition fighters to be able to rest as effectively as possible in short periods. Conjecture but perhaps when M. Clement's publishes his article the possibility could be clarified.

[Vance Osterhout]

Campaign songs are great. There's no greater feeling than marching down the road singing about how awesome you are"

M. Osterhout, quite astute observation.

And in the period being discussed group morale could hinge on such things as songs, a bit of old cloth, or a young girl as a spiritual mascot.

And I'd wonder if the fight school musicians (at least in England anyway) used such as the "Agincourt Carol La Route Au Beziers" for something such as a transition or break between bouts. Obviously martial, but not something which would seem to work well for setting rapid movements be that on a field or training area. As intensely physical as the arts of the sword are, it would seem also very valuable to condition fighters to be able to rest as effectively as possible in short periods. Conjecture but perhaps when M. Clement's publishes his article the possibility could be clarified.

Thank you. Well having marched down the road singing in formation, I could tell by the tempo that's what this song probably was. I would also theorize that one reason the drummers were present would be close order drill training. This was a staple of the battlefield and if you were training soldiers then you would definitely want to cover this.

Martial Spirit and Morale are one of the foundations of a well built military force.

[s_taillebois]

Well it makes sense. And I'd wonder if the music situation was much more closely linked to edged weapons used in formation such as pikes, halberds and etc. In training it would seem to be useful for training such men to move and act en masse...obviously they had drums for this also. And drums or even battle songs might have been important keep group morale when pressed...it would seem to be very imperative for these weapons and systems. Cavalry or horse archers could run off...once a percentage of pikemen did the same the whole lot were in much deeper trouble.

The Irish had songs about mustering the Pikes that were still being sung into the 19th century, well after Pikes were relevant militarily. So there may have been specific music associated with these weapons.

It'll be interesting to read M. Clement's research when it comes out...

[Stewart Sackett]

Aaron, you already have my best recommendations for the CD but the one thing I would add that I was never able to get my hands on is "Chaos" by the German band Schelmish (recommended to me by Ben M.) since it is not sold in the US. If anyone can get a hold of this song, I think it would make a great addition!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIQiSZdX8vA

Found it!! www.mp3fiesta.com and do a search by letter for Schelmish.

This is now the official soundtrack to all my solo training & cardio work...admitedly I could do with a little more cardio work.

[Kevin Maurer]

I've read that at a Bout in Nuremberg (early 16th cent) , the Fencers were "called to the sand strewn field" by the drummers and Fifers. From the Pub that was adjoining the Arena. And that the Fencers immediately formed into their respective Guilds. Until each was summoned, presumably by the Music, to the end of the Field where their Weapons lay.
Also, that the Master initiated the ceremony by marching around the Field, taking large,high steps, presumably to the Drums and Fife. returning to his original position. All this would have made for quite a spectacle to the already raucous onlookers gathered in the stands.
The above mentioned article is from a German Site, which comes with the disclaimer that the 1876 Authors' sources cannot be verified. Yet it makes for interesting reading. IMO it leaves little doubt about some of the possible functions of Music and the Fechtschulen.

[Vance Osterhout]

This is slightly off topic, but they probably used “Isms” as well. The Marine Corps , and I’m sure other branches, uses Isms which are little sayings you chant when you are performing an action. Like when preparing to march when the Guide raises his Guidon, he chants to himself “ Over, Up, Cut” while performing the action. Sometimes they rhyme. I would imagine that a lot of teachers used these sort of rhythmic sayings to drill students.