Dog Brothers Gathering-August 10th in LA

[KatherineJohnson]

I'm thinking about attending and either fighting with a modified rattan "staff" or modified bamboo shinai. Probably some knife work aswell.

Anyone else thinking about going?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVg1LMET46c

[Sal Bertucci]

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIII..don't think so.

[Keith Culbertson]

well, i guess I have to find a computer with a better Flash player to see it, but I have heard all good things about the Dog Brothers, John C even had one attend the session in Greece last Fall and said they were very intense but ready to absorb everything and share as well.

wish i had money to give it a go, but good luck to you Kat, and really hope you heal well first

[Jaron Bernstein]

I'm thinking about attending and either fighting with a modified rattan "staff" or modified bamboo shinai. Probably some knife work aswell.

Anyone else thinking about going?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVg1LMET46c

I have also only heard good things about the Dog Brothers and their approach. Maybe they would allow you to use a padded simulator or perhaps a plastic waster? Have fun!

[Sal Bertucci]

Really? I mean it takes guts to do it, I'll grant you that, but from the video it just looks like a "swing-fest" mixed with grappling.

[Ken Horton]

What's the point? Looks like people running around beating the hell out each other, any skill? A comparison would be a street fight vs the sport of boxing.
I think there could be some good training as far as getting in and mixing it up
but it doesn't appear to have anything to do with hits with a sword (stick) and the injuries that would cause. I saw guys getting hit numerous times and just keep wacking away!
I don't understand what any of that has to do with WMA swordsmanship.

Sorry for being negative, maybe I'm off a tad.

Ken

[Stewart Sackett]

What's the point? Looks like people running around beating the hell out each other, any skill? A comparison would be a street fight vs the sport of boxing.
I think there could be some good training as far as getting in and mixing it up
but it doesn't appear to have anything to do with hits with a sword (stick) and the injuries that would cause. I saw guys getting hit numerous times and just keep wacking away!
I don't understand what any of that has to do with WMA swordsmanship.

Sorry for being negative, maybe I'm off a tad.

Ken

To be fair WMA encompasses more than swordsmanship & the fact that you saw people "getting hit numerous times and just keep wacking away" only seems to indicate that none of the blows were incapacitating.

One downside to training in the use of sharp weapons is that a certain amount of imagination is required. We have to say "well, you hit me but I don't think it would have been a deep cut" or "wow! If this were for real you would have just chopped my leg off!". In what the dog brothers do, there's no need to imagine. Either a blow is debilitating or it's not.

[Sal Bertucci]

But still, there is a difference between a non incapacitating shot, and swinging around like the hits don't happen. One of the clips showed some one getting hit in the face 7 times, then losing the stick and grappling.

If you look at one of the side (other )videos, there's one called "warning: stick fighting is dangerous". If you skim to the end, it shows you what would happen in a real fight. Ex. "BAM, the opponent collapses and is stunned, the the victor would finish him off."

I know that we have to do some thinking on "how hard a hit would be", etc., but that takes the weapon completely out of the picture. You could just win by rushing the person. Sure you're going to take a few hits, but once your inside then it's all about the grappling.

Since you can't actually do any incapacitating hits it just becomes an event where you beat the crap out of each other with sticks for a bit, then role around on the ground, till one of you knocks the other one out.

[Ken Horton]

I guess I can see the brutality in this and imagine what it was to meet on the battlefield. I'm with you Sal, I am curious to hear from older members, I'm still a newbie. There is a difference in sparring with intent and focusing on cuts, form, and accuracy etc. and swinging sticks. I just don't see the point in
pummeling the opponent when a hit is made that would be a fight ending injury.
I did scroll down and did watch some of the videos....I still think it's a brawl with sticks.

Ken

[Stewart Sackett]

You could just win by rushing the person. Sure you're going to take a few hits, but once your inside then it's all about the grappling.

I'm not seeing the problem with that. Obviously it's better to rush in without getting hit but the ideal is rarely the case in actual combat or in sparring. A good deal of material in the fightbooks is focused on a cover & crash strategy, so there is historical merit to that sort of fight dynamic.

At the end of the day, it does work. I can't help but feel your complaint is aesthetic rather then practical in nature. Personally, I think any fight with blunt weapons that doesn't involve grappling is artifical. Grappling is a part of fighting after all; & a part the German masters felt was rather important.

Of course, my grappling obsession doesn't mean I don't see a value to isolating free standing strikes for training purposses.

[KatherineJohnson]

It takes a lot of martial spirit to fight like that. Take multiple hits from a rattan stick and keep fighting. Rattan HURTS, especially the big staffs, i'm sure they pack a whallop.

But that's the point of the Gathering, to develop that martial spirit. I think many of us would benefit from this type of sparring where one hit does not mean you stop the match from imagination. It keeps you defending even if you know your hit is good.

[KatherineJohnson]

To add some further thoughts, I had just watched a Senior Free Scholar prize playing (Aarons I think?) and while Armateers certainly seem overall more skilled at avoiding blows I think that to call oneself a fighter one needs to built the martial spirit that the kind of fighting the dog brothers do requires.

When I fight I will certainly use a more evasive style just because I am ARMA trained, I do train to fight with sharp weapons, but all the same, it all starts with the willingness to engage the enemy. Be it barehands, knives, swords, or guns.

I actually had a guy a few uears back, newbie guy, who after tired of being repeatedly "tag, your dead" hit. Suggested that we just swing at eachother till one gave in.

Using superior skill and evasive footwork I hit him in the head and body about 10 times without getting touched once despite his bullrush.

You can't tell me that theres no martial validity to developing that kind of skill. I know a lot of newbies have probably never heard of me but i think some of the old timers will understand where I'm coming from

[Sal Bertucci]

You could just win by rushing the person. Sure you're going to take a few hits, but once your inside then it's all about the grappling.

I'm not seeing the problem with that. Obviously it's better to rush in without getting hit but the ideal is rarely the case in actual combat or in sparring. A good deal of material in the fightbooks is focused on a cover & crash strategy, so there is historical merit to that sort of fight dynamic.

Yes, but my point is that there's no advantage of having a weapon in this. (at least on the footage I've seen) I mean, if you want to end the fight quickly, just drop what you have and tackle the other guy.

For instance, if I have a long sword and you don't blindly rushing me is a bad way to try to win the bought.

Also, I never even implied that it doesn't hurt, but as for the German phrase, I don't see how this teaches anything.

Finally, I return to my earlier statement. Despite, the fact that I don't find it that appealing I freely admit to the amount of guts and/or martial spirit it would take to do something like that.

[KatherineJohnson]

For instance, if I have a long sword and you don't blindly rushing me is a bad way to try to win the bought.

Take out the blindly and you have the only way to win the bout. As soon as your opponent looks to bring their weapon into play you need to be in their face.

[Sal Bertucci]

this is true, but different situations will make it more/less feasible.