Sigh

[Brandon Paul Heslop]

I just don't know about this. It's not like those of us involved in the revival of these arts don't have a hard enough time in striving for recognition and validity in the eyes of practitioners of other arts.

See for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwC6djXb ... re=related

-B.

[Mike Cartier]

i have to try that side kick against a shield

[Jay Vail]

We've all complained about the utterly idiotic and unrealistic fencing in movies. At least these guys are taking a step toward trying to incorporate some historical material in their work, altho they have a really long way to go.

[Jay Vail]

i have to try that side kick against a shield

Works every time for me.

[Corey Roberts]

I have now recently finally managed to resign myself to the fact that stage combat is not nor ever will be anything related to our art, or for that matter any form of actual combat. When you finally manage to just accept the fact that stage combat is a performing art and think of it only in the context of a performing art it begins to annoy you much less.

[Audra Grapes]

At least they are acknowledging that it is THEATRICAL with the intent of dramatizing and entertaining. But, yes, it would be really nice if these things came with a disclaimer that they are not historically accurate nor martially sound for the benefit of the masses who can't seperate fantasy and reality...

[Sam Nankivell]

For what it's worth, I actually have to say that is the best theatrical fencing I have seen yet. I loved the throw at 0:36.

The reason for it being good theatrical fencing was not the martial validity of the techniques, but rather the energy displayed by the actors. They gave a good impression of actually fighting (albeit, not well) rather than performing a set of pre-arranged strikes.

Personally, I have no problem with theatrical fencing. Sure, it is kind of annoying to have to explain to people that the fencing isn't similar to actual fencing, but that occurs with any person knowledgeable in a specific field (not that I am an "expert") who views a show with that field included. I know people who work in forensics who cringe at how inaccurate CSI is.

What I find really interesting is when actors are actually fencers (albeit sport fencers) and you get interesting fights like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McDfLkLq ... re=related
The speed of this scene amazes me, even if they are using ultra-light fencing sabres.

[Axel Pettersson]

Here are some people (Adorea) who are trying:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqOe44tdgmY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ht8MNsbVrc

[Stewart Sackett]

There are safety reasons why stage fencing cannot look too much like real fighting. What bothers me is when the movies don't try to be better then theater work.

I thought the group in the first video was quite good for live stage combat.

I felt that the film The Duellists was proof of concept for historically accurate swordsmanship in film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VVHSoun ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPb9RqYP ... re=related

I find it frustrating that no choreogaphers/directors seem to have followed its example.

[Mike Cartier]

ah yes the best sword fighting stuff in any movie.
Duelists is still one of my favorite movies

[Sam Nankivell]

There are safety reasons why stage fencing cannot look too much like real fighting. What bothers me is when the movies don't try to be better then theater work.

I thought the group in the first video was quite good for live stage combat.

I felt that the film The Duellists was proof of concept for historically accurate swordsmanship in film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VVHSoun ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPb9RqYP ... re=related

I find it frustrating that no choreogaphers/directors seem to have followed its example.

That's probably because those scenes are too realistic. Rather then being full of aggressive fighters who constantly attack each other in a flurry of blows in a charged dramatic fashion, they show fighters being cautious and thinking about what they will do (as one is liable to do when one's life is on the line). They also who moments where both fighters have less than stellar technique, screw up and mutually retreat. The anxiety of combat is what this movie captures perfectly. This is shown very well in the first scene where the man who gets stabbed is clearly scared for his life during the duel. Even the victor in that scene is shown, though clearly as aggressive, as being very cautious of his actions.

Unfortunately, having both opponents remain in the zufechten for the majority of the fight (what commonly happens), isn't exactly sexy on screen in the same way a traditional theatrical fight is.

Actually, come to think of it, this is even more realistic looking than the set plays of people like Ringeck, Meyer, Fabris and others. In the plays and examples given in most manuals, you don't really get the image of BOTH combatants screwing up at the same time.

I guess it goes to show that what happens is often quite different than what is planned. I think that the Duellist shows that difference quite well, which is why most of us here who spar can sympathise with it.

[Jaron Bernstein]

ah yes the best sword fighting stuff in any movie.
Duelists is still one of my favorite movies

"If Lt. Feroud feels an interest to know, the mayor's nephew is still alive.....more or less"

I just love that film.

[Peter Goranov]

Having taken some courses related to movies and directing/shooting techniques i must say that a lot of the "dynamic" action in the original clip posted had been acheived trough good short cuts and drastic changing of camera angles. If it had been a long continuous clip from a single camera it would look much much worse. Editing gives it the rapidnes and impact of most of the moves performed. It's made to sell that group of choreographers.

[Joel Norman]

I saw that Adorea clip on youtube, and I was intrigued too, but I've been to the website which I can't quite read, and didn't see anything indicating that the movie, whatever the plot is actually about, will be coming to the US, or published with English subtitles, or anything. Does anyone actually know more about this film (Shadows of Dream I think it is called) that was supposed to have been done in 2007?