Dog Brothers Gathering-August 10th in LA

[Mike Cartier]

I'm not sure I understand your commnts on Kali Grant

Kali is the mother sword art of Arnis the stick fighting arts. The Dog Brothers are roughly under the Inosanto Filipino arts umbrellas which is a gathering of several Kali/Escrima styles. i myself am under that tree also.

Stick fghing and sword fighting are 2 different things so you have to see through that lense. We cannot compete in a Dog Brothers competition IMHO because they do not treat the sticks like swords so there is no stopping wen someone is given what would be a fatal strike. We also ould be unable to unleash the power of a western longsword waister in that sort of cmpetition scenario, striking to maim with a wooden longsword the same way they do with sticks i feel would be grossly unsafe.

Its a different thing, i would like to see the DB do some sword versions of thier bouts where they acknowledge debilitating cuts or thrusts without having to destroy the other guy to prove you won. With a stick you have to hit them hard and often to win.

I love the dog brothers BTW, best stuff in western kali/Escrima

[Ciaran Daly]

I have to say that I don't see much use in this at all, as far as Martial Arts go I consider Kali as one of the worst as it has a always go forawrd mentality in its fighting that results in both opponents getting hit multiple times.

There is little to no voiding, parrying or blocking, in every single Kali fight I've seen it amounts to hit for hit til someone quits.

I don't think it builds martial spirit at all, aleast not the martial spirit indicative of one who fights with bladed weapons.

This is a spectacularly ignorant post. Kali has a very big bladed component, has no such "come forward" mentality, has in fact all the parries, voiding, etc. you so blithely claim it doesn't. There are in all likelihood still living masters who fought against the Japanese coming out of the tall grass with katanas, while weilding short swords or machetes of their own. Living masters who have fought bladed duels. There is both a stick fighting and a bladed component to the art, and in fact many of the disarms and binding actions in the German tradition have very similar counterparts in the Filipino one.

The U.S. Army did not cause the .45 1911 to be developed because they were being charged by guys armed only with sticks.

I highly suggest you at least use Google, or perhaps read a little of the history of the region before you make these kinds of assertions. You do the WMA community in general and ARMA in particular a disservice by these sorts of posts.

[Sal Bertucci]

To Grant's credit, he did mention the fact that what he said was based on his experience, watching bouts. The videos that Dog Brothers have on their event go a long way to supporting what he said with a visual confirmation. Now maybe he's watching inexperienced Kali fighters, and you might even want to go so far as to say that this Dog Brothers event isn't a good representation of what Kali is, but as it stands...

[Ciaran Daly]

To Grant's credit, he did mention the fact that what he said was based on his experience, watching bouts. The videos that Dog Brothers have on their event go a long way to supporting what he said with a visual confirmation. Now maybe he's watching inexperienced Kali fighters, and you might even want to go so far as to say that this Dog Brothers event isn't a good representation of what Kali is, but as it stands...

As it stands he made embarassingly ignorant sweeping statements about a culture and combative tradition thousands of years old and the excuse you have made for him is that he based it on something he saw on Tha Internets. That doesn't make it better. As it stands, that "excuse" makes it worse.

[Sal Bertucci]

meh

[Gene Tausk]

meh

Guys, as interesting as this is, this is going nowhere and has little or nothing to do with HES, ARMA or what this website is about. Let's think about shutting this down.

[seneca savoie]

The dog brother embody alot of skill. fights are chaotic, the Dog Brothers come from the same Kali/Escrima Lineage i come from , the Inosanto /JKD lineage.

They simply took what they were learning and went out to pressure test it, they found of course that alot of stuff was fluffy and not especially usefull in the heat of combat, essentially trimming down the art to its bare essentials. A very good approach IMHO.

Its not some haphazard street fight they are doing, stick fighting is like that, it takes many shots to get the guy not just one good one like with a blade, in that environment you end up taking shots. They are certainly not just bashing away at each other, its all from a good stong martial arts base of theory and training.

There is a great deal of skill here, which of course a highlight reel cut to look as exciting as possible will obscure. Keep in mind they're training for an impact weapon, so there isn't much need to argue over "if the blow would have stopped you". It either did or it didn't, and lots of people who just rush in without technical head defense end up with concussions. Many of the highest level players are known for their evasiveness and footwork(eric knauss and Ben Rittner especially), and on their full videos, with the benefit of the slow motion, you can find a lot of the FMA techniques displayed.

Of course, FMA in a bladed context will look different, but it's the same core skillset, and the training methodology has a LOT in common with ARMA.

[seneca savoie]

I have to say that I don't see much use in this at all, as far as Martial Arts go I consider Kali as one of the worst as it has a always go forawrd mentality in its fighting that results in both opponents getting hit multiple times.

There is little to no voiding, parrying or blocking, in every single Kali fight I've seen it amounts to hit for hit til someone quits.

Some styles that develop around the WEKAF ruleset will display this, but to say that every FMA style is GO FORWARD 24/7 is just plain ignorant. The triangular footwork drills you see in %80 of FMA are meant to develop the same off-line movement that I see experienced ARMA players display, and I think a number of the austin crew can attest to my ability to technically flank and close on people who are overall better fencers than I.

To the extent that a given style is bladed, the footwork will be more pronounced, and you'll see experienced dog brothers practicing exactly what they preach with regard to offline movement as counter-offense.

[seneca savoie]

To Grant's credit, he did mention the fact that what he said was based on his experience, watching bouts. The videos that Dog Brothers have on their event go a long way to supporting what he said with a visual confirmation. Now maybe he's watching inexperienced Kali fighters, and you might even want to go so far as to say that this Dog Brothers event isn't a good representation of what Kali is, but as it stands...

His comments don't even stand about the dog brothers. I can't post video without violating copyright, but when you take the full fights many recognizable techniques of blocking from WMA, as well as active voiding are in full effect. He says no kali style in the world teaches any of these techniques, nor how to fight with a blade. Maybe if he was just talking about wekaf(essentially the olympic point sparring version of FMA), this might make sense.

The only person i know of who's ever been in a sword duel to the death that's still walkign around, a sgt of the phillipine force recon marines, voided his opponents initial attack while severing his wrist, and then finished him.

He is trained (and only for a few months of intensive camps!) in pekiti tirsia kali, which is the official blade curriculum of that unit.

[Steven Blakely]

WHAT ON EARTH!!!!!
that is mental. (i mean it could be fun ) but what it is is a street fight nothing more. Interstingly enoughthe one thing that it does have to offer armaknights is the reality of a modern fight. one thing i think we forget is in this study of wma is that there are few who train in any kind of fighting s tyle besides the one on that film. the question is are you good enogh to change the tempo and controll the fight. because if we were to use our knowledge in this day and age that is who we would be fighting people with broken rythem etc,,,

[Gene Tausk]

Thread closed.