falling from throws

[Scott A. Richardson]

I think its important to remember the historical context from which these fechtbuchs come. Boys had been wrestling and throwing each other around since they were little, and in the process had likely learned how to fall without breaking their necks. This is one reason, I believe, basics are often eschewed in the manuals; it would be something like a modern manual for Special Forces that starts with explaining how to load their weapon.

[Eddie Smith]

Perhaps some manuals on tumbling, would have a clue, if any exist.

[Tyrone Artur Budzin]

Would it be possible to extrapolate how to safely fall from the throws being shown in the manuals? It would be absurd to conclude practice sessions by the masters were meant to injure the students.

I agree with Scott Richardson's comment, fighters in their early age must have practiced some sort of play wrestling. I myself remember doing so when I still lived in Germany as a child so what more for kids who lived in an era without gadgets, toys and gaming consoles to preccupy their time.

[Stewart Sackett]

How to fall is a matter of basic biomechanics. I don't think it makes sense to worry about doing an "authentically medieval breakfall". My guess is that wrestlers in the 15th century knew how to fall, so if you do a good breakfall I believe it's likely to be historical.

Wrestling was an extremely popular sport in medieval Europe.

It's my belief that some sportive system of wrestling was widely practiced (probably with victory being determined by pin/fall) & that the skills developed through such sport provided a foundation for the techniques of the fightbooks to be built upon.

If young boys began their formal training as knights/soldier at the age of 12, I can easily imagine that they'd do so with as much as 8 years of experience in competitive sport wrestling.

[Sal Bertucci]

Pietro Monte, a spanish fightmaster, wrote about the importance of falling correctly. So I"m sure the knowlege was there, as well as the practice.

[Tom Keesler]

I would even say that the Japanese break-falls and rolls are effective for negotiating wooden gym-floors. But like anything, they have their limits, e.g. do not expect them to save you from injury on concrete, stone, gravel. :wink:

Yes, it seems like certain basic stuff like break-falls were likely known to writers of manuals but left out as too basic. One may notice that a number of modern books about judo or jujitsu may not cover break-falls, as they are written with advanced student in mind. So if old manuals do the same, it should be no surprise to us.

Codex W is an example of this I think. It shows many techniques in the bind or in krieg, but has nothing on guards, master cuts, stepping, etc.

IMO it is definately for a student with some experience.

Tom Keesler