"Deadliest Warrior" on Spike TV

[Dylan Asbury]

I realize that as this show goes on, this thread will live on with our griping and complaining. It's great. Really, I live in a world where I'm the only one who knows jack about WMA and it's kind of cool to hear the same complaints I made coming from other people's hands.

just WAIT till they get to the episode about Knight V whoever. This place will come ALIVE with angry posts. and when whatever rapier-wielding soldier they choose rolls around, you'll hear me griping too.

As far as my actual thoughts on the matter go, They take data from weapons V gel. They don't account for variables like movement, give armor only a cursory testing and make no account whatsoever of technique.

I just laugh at the badly acted "dramatization" at the end. The last one, where the samurai did this wierd little jump dodge thing and they slowed the camera down, I laughed hysterically because earlier that day, my friend and I had been sparring and I'd voided or dodged about 80% of his blows (even though he was wielding the "finest weapon ever produced by man" according to one of the shows "experts")

It's a show made for the public and the public doesn't care about realism in martial arts. I'm the guy at my school that people ask about anything having to do with the martial arts or the history thereof. These are some of the questions i get:
"Dylan, can a sword really cut all the way through someone's leg?"
" Dylan, what was the point of being a knight?"
"Dylan, did ninjas ever exist?"
"What did ninjas do?"
When i responded to what did ninjas do with
"They killed, stole, and spied for money"
the gentleman actually responded with
"Oh, i thought they just got together in little ninja clubs and karate kicked around"

I SWEAR on my heart that he said this in full, true earnest. So, the show was made for people like the above. I said all that to say this. (and to vent a little.) They have no concept of swordsmanship and if the show did, no one would watch it because it would be incomprehensible to them.

[Mike Sheffield]

Ok this show and this thread like all the others "Japan vs Occidental" threads all over the internet is nothing more than a popularity contest. "Well MY favorite has the best sword." "OH YEAH! Well my favorite has the best armor!" And this goes back and forth. The truth of the matter is there are always these things in battles called variables. "The samurai could charge like this and blah blah." Yes but he could also slip and fall on his keester...I don't care how good of a warrior he is, he is still human and WILL make mistakes. "Well the Viking could smash down like this with his massive yack yack yack." Yes but he could also hit the tree limb above himself which causes the limb to break off with the sword still in it and fall to his toe...again weirder things have happened in the world so this could happen. I know those were over the top and silly, but I think you are getting my drift. Then of course there is the awesome thing of humans adapting and over coming. Do you really think that after a few battles like this the Occidental way would stay the same? They would change to adapt to this new enemy, and the same could be said on the Japanese. Even if you use modern day practitioners of these arts against each other as a reference it's a "up in the air" thing. I've noticed its not so much the style, it's natural ability, training, and life's little variables that have decided the out come of these bouts not the style. But if we HAVE to compare warriors from all over time, my money is on the guy who is dropping the atomic bomb. See how silly this is. Concentrate on what your doing in your art. Have faith that you would be able to crush your enemy if that time ever came. You know you can. Keep on swinging you crazy swordsman! I will now go back to my smithy and shut up.

[Jaron Bernstein]

I have been fortunate to have met what I consider to be a few upper level martial artists. Not just good, but awesome skill levels. They were trained and skilled in widely different arts. It is true that some arts will tend to produce a better fighter faster (I don't see a tai chi practicioner in the UFC any time soon) due to the way they train, it really does come down to the fighter her/himself rather than the art.

[CalebChow]

Just watched the Spartan vs. Ninja.

Put the ninja toe to toe with a Spartan, face to face. That's SOOOOO fair. Yah.

Next is knight vs pirate. Gee, guy without gun vs guy with gun.

Next thing we know it's going to be caveman vs marine, and the caveman is going to win.

[Dylan Asbury]

Pirate V knight? Spartan V ninja? whoever is making these up is a moron. everyone knows, no matter what happens, the pirate has to fight the ninja!

[Sal Bertucci]

That's season 2!!!!!

Anyway, I found a way to watch the show that doesn't piss me off as much. I watch it with no sound, and I just skip to the weapon tests!! It's amazing the difference it makes!

Also, I realized something. Last episode the samurai only won 52% of the fights. So with a 200 year advantage in metallurgy, armor, weapons, and technique they just barely managed to win against a "barbarian" viking. That speaks to the OBVIOUS inferiority of the Samurai martial tradition as opposed to the Western one.

Ok, all you Japanese Sword Arts people. I'm not taking a swipe at you , and I don't really believe what I just typed. It was a joke based on how you can't base assumptions on computer readouts. So if you were about to wail on me...SIMMA' DOWN. If not, then move along.

[Mike Sheffield]

Actually I think the Norse pattern welded broadsword is just awesome. I am comfortable using a katana because that is what I'm trained with, even the tachi is VERY uncomfortable to me. Crazy weird curve in those. For a user just because that is all I have been trained with, would be the katana. BUT the sword I would spend all day stairing at and admiring would be the Norse broadsword. Yes I think the katana are pretty, with those neat hamon and all. Yes I love the look of a longsword as someone who is trained with that weapon uses it. There is just something to the look of a longsword. But man oh man I could stair at the patterns in a Norse blade for days and days! Just SOOOO freakin pretty!

[Sal Bertucci]

here here!

[Dylan Asbury]

Rapiers are freakin'gorgeous as well. I've seen some that were so pretty, I shed a tear at seeing them. Also, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khanda_(sword) ) The khanda from the oft-overlooked east indian martial tradition is a stunner...dig that blade etching!

[Mike Sheffield]

While I would make rapier, I have no love for them. They just don't speak to me. That is just my opinion. I think its the shape and design of the hilts. Then you have this long slender blade, then BAM this over the top hilt that is really short. Ugly.

[Dylan Asbury]

Also, about muting the BS and fast forwarding to the gel testing of the weapons...Yeah, me too. But on some level I like listening to the Smack-talking if only because it's the banter of peasants who don't really know what they're describing. My father and brother are like "what's so funny?" While i'm laughing at the fact that the naginata was primarily a weapon used by women to safeguard the household and the fact that the straight spear, which was the male primary spear, is totally neglected.

[Maxime Chouinard]

While i'm laughing at the fact that the naginata was primarily a weapon used by women to safeguard the household and the fact that the straight spear, which was the male primary spear, is totally neglected.

No, not really. The weapon, as any other, was predominantly used by men on the battlefields from 712 (when the term first appeared) until the Edo period in 1603. Then it became somewhat associated with women, because many samurai wives would learn to use it to protect the house while their husband was gone, but it really began to be considered a feminine staple in the taisho period (1912) when it was taught in schools to young women to uphold martial and nationalist values. But you are right that the spear was the primary weapon, at least up to the introduction of the gun. One of the major biais of this show is that it ignores the vast panoply of weapons that each warrior had, in the case of the samurai: axes, flails, guns, warhammers, spear, etc. But all in all the concept itself is laughable.

[Dylan Asbury]

Did anybody see the flail on the knight V pirate episode? That was gorgeous. I was underwhelmed by the halberd display but I think the guy could have applied himself a little more with the strikes. and anyone here who didn't laugh when the pistol and grenade did nothing against the plate armor? The importance of good body armor cannot be understated.

[Sal Bertucci]

I'll have to watch it this week on mute.

[Sal Bertucci]

I just watched it and have to say that this episode wasn't based on fighting. It was based on shooting. Is anyone surprised by this? I hope not. I mean seriousely look at the statistics for the last three episodes. In each case the poeple who brought the bow and arrows "won". I mean I could be mistaken, but haven't guns replaced swords in real life? Purely based on technologocal advantage the pirate should win ever battle against any of the last 5 groups.