Vital point striking in Kampfringen/Arte dell Abrazzare

[Corey Roberts]

I know there are plenty of nasty strikes to what would be called "vital points" within medieval/renaissance grappling systems. Has anybody catalogued or categorized what sorts of weak parts of the human anatomy the manuals tell us to apply unmerciful force to?

[Sal Bertucci]

I've never cataloged anything, but he two things that come straight to my mind are the chest area over the heart and the testicles.

[Jaron Bernstein]

I know there are plenty of nasty strikes to what would be called "vital points" within medieval/renaissance grappling systems. Has anybody catalogued or categorized what sorts of weak parts of the human anatomy the manuals tell us to apply unmerciful force to?

A modern catalog? Not to my knowledge. I am a big believer in learning from the manuals themselves as much as possible.

[Keith Culbertson]

maybe Jaron did not read you fully Corey, I believe you are asking whether someone in ARMA or otherwise in RMA has created a catalogue of 'vital point' attacks from the manuals for us to use? I have not seen one.

Nevertheless, for unarmored, such points remain the same throughout all martial arts: any joint, anywhere there are nerve clusters closer to the surface (temple, underarm, inside thigh, etc...), and relatively exposed organs (testicles, eyes, kidneys, etc...).

In the case of armored, it is all about finding the way under/past the shell to the person.

[Tyrone Artur Budzin]

There is this book published by medieval practitioner Hugh Knight which consolidates the German Combat Ringen system of the medieval period. Below is the link.

http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-b ... at/2077141

Has anyone had the chance to read it? A readers review on the book would be highly appreciated.

[Jonathan Newhall]

Isn't he the "no test cutting" and "block with the edge" guy?

[Tyrone Artur Budzin]

Not so sure, I did correspond with him and it does seem he is pretty well versed with medieval Ringen. His whole system focuses on the German fechtbuchs published from around the 13th to 15th century as far as I can tell.

[Randall Pleasant]

Isn't he the "no test cutting" and "block with the edge" guy?

Yes and no, Hugh Knight probably does some test cutting but he is best known for believing that sparring is bad for a swordsmen, ie. he believes one picks up bad habbits in sparring. Of course any time a teacher refuses to spar you can bet he probably sucks really bad. I strongly encourage all ARMA member to not waste a single penny on any of the books my Hugh Knight. I would also point out to ARMA members that few people hate ARMA like Hugh Knight , personally that alone is reason enough not to support him with a single penny!

[Tyrone Artur Budzin]

Isn't he the "no test cutting" and "block with the edge" guy?

Yes and no, Hugh Knight probably does some test cutting but he is best known for believing that sparring is bad for a swordsmen, ie. he believes one picks up bad habbits in sparring. Of course any time a teacher refuses to spar you can bet he probably sucks really bad. I strongly encourage all ARMA member to not waste a single penny on any of the books my Hugh Knight. I would also point out to ARMA members that few people hate ARMA like Hugh Knight , personally that alone is reason enough not to support him with a single penny!

Really?? I find that hard to believe after my correspondence with him. I guess the only way for me to find out is to shell out some cash to see if the book is any good...

[Jaron Bernstein]

Isn't he the "no test cutting" and "block with the edge" guy?

Yes and no, Hugh Knight probably does some test cutting but he is best known for believing that sparring is bad for a swordsmen, ie. he believes one picks up bad habbits in sparring. Of course any time a teacher refuses to spar you can bet he probably sucks really bad. I strongly encourage all ARMA member to not waste a single penny on any of the books my Hugh Knight. I would also point out to ARMA members that few people hate ARMA like Hugh Knight , personally that alone is reason enough not to support him with a single penny!

Really?? I find that hard to believe after my correspondence with him. I guess the only way for me to find out is to shell out some cash to see if the book is any good...

Knight's "no sparring" approach is flawed IMO. First, there is ample record that the the historical masters did spar and engage in free play, both blossfechten and harnessfechten. The English had schools of defense where your progress was measured by playing your prize in sparring. Meyer is all about sparring. When Dobringer talks about school fighting and earnest fighting, his school fighting was oppositional freeplay, not just drills. I can cite other examples as well if you need. To use a modern analogy if you want to be a good football team, you can (and should) do all manner of conditioning and drills. But you cannot progress beyond a certain point unless you actually play another oposing team in competition, even if it is just a series of friendly backyard matches.

If you want to buy Mr. Knight's translations, that is one thing. The original manual in translation is still the work of the masters. But a book of his teaching method is flawed. Every historical fencer or WMA group that I respect at some point (some early in training and some later) has its members engage in freeplay.

[Tyrone Artur Budzin]

I do agree sparring is an important aspect of learning skills taught in the fechtbuchs. The question is not about translation I think but of interpretation with regard to Hugh Knight's book. Are his definitions both effective and historically accurate? That will be the most important question of all.

[Jaron Bernstein]

I do agree sparring is an important aspect of learning skills taught in the fechtbuchs. The question is not about translation I think but of interpretation with regard to Hugh Knight's book. Are his definitions both effective and historically accurate? That will be the most important question of all.

I am not a translator. I can pick out specific words, but translating a text is beyond my skills. I don't know how accurate his translations are.

[Tyrone Artur Budzin]

I am getting the impression his book might not be worth purchasing after all.