Sharpness of Blades

[J. Harvey]

A simple question from a newbie. While reading the Codex Wallerstein, I was amazed to see maneuvers for grabing ones own or the opponents blade. Just how sharp were these blades kept ? Or is this manual showing moves that would be done with gloves or gauntlets in genuine battle?

[Corey Roberts]

Please watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rqP1F36EMY

[CalebChow]

Pinching is definitely part of the trick, but I've always wondered about the murder-stroke.

Every time I try it with my blunt I always feel a pretty strong edge pressure in my palms, but if I didn't grip it that hard it feels like the strike wouldn't even dent a piece of sheet steel let alone bonk an armored head in.

[Richard Gray]

Had he grabbed my sword in any of the positions he did in the video, he would have been cut severely...Not everyone uses an edge that is not razor sharp. I polish my swords edges until they will shave. I suspect that many of those moves were and are done with a gauntlet on the off hand, this is mentioned in many works.

[Jonathan Newhall]

Had he grabbed my sword in any of the positions he did in the video, he would have been cut severely...Not everyone uses an edge that is not razor sharp. I polish my swords edges until they will shave. I suspect that many of those moves were and are done with a gauntlet on the off hand, this is mentioned in many works.

Medieval swords, though, were not commonly kept razor sharp. They did not have to be, and it caused a large quantity of techniques involving holding your own sword without gloves to be very dangerous!

And many, many illustrations depict people without gloves (some even in armor without gloves!) using halfsword techniques, so I do not suspect that they were invented solely for use with gauntlets.

[Stacy Clifford]

A razor sharp edge is a thin edge that will have a tendency to fold or chip when hitting hard metal objects. While the last few inches of the blade were often kept fairly sharp, the "meat" of the blade was generally kept with more of a well-honed chisel edge that would be much more durable and still quite able to cause lots of damage.

[Richard Gray]

A edge does not have to be either thin, nor have a bur to be hair shaving sharp. I have 40 yrs experience sharpening blades of all kinds, and have demonstrated many times that even a well polished hard 90 degree edge can be very sharp if done correctly.
I was not speaking "off the cuff" as it were and did not mean to insult anyone. If I did, I am deeply sorry.

[Corey Roberts]

Many in ARMA have had the opportunity to handle very sharp blades with bare hands. It can be done, as the video said, so long as you do not place flesh directly against the edge, and hold very firmly. When holding a sharp blade you do not press your hand directly into the edge. Rather your palm is placed up against the flat of the blade, and your fingers wrap around to the flat on the other side. In this manner the actual skin and flesh of your hand comes into very limited contact with the actual edge.

[Stacy Clifford]

We've had our share of experience with sword makers who create very thin edges to impress people by cutting soft materials. A good example is here:

http://www.thearma.org/photos/Gathering ... utting.htm

Razor sharp may not necessarily be synonymous with razor thin, but it's a common enough association that we find it necessary to combat the idea. I've seen some pretty sharp chisels, so we're not saying they weren't sharp, just not as sharp as commonly believed. There are too many images of bare-handed half swording to believe they were regularly kept too sharp to touch.

[s_taillebois]

And some of the swords best suited to half warding also have fairly tapered blades. So in the case of the bastard types, even by pinching there isn't much point of contact with the hand anyway.

Although half warding may actually be a bigger advantage with a modern sword...insofar as many modern replicas of bastard types (15's etc) don't have the correct blade forms. Not as stiff as their historical predecessors.

Also as Reinhardt noted (forgot the video sorry) a more abrupt angle on the sharpening of a sword made it more suitable for use when opponents were armoured. Same condition of folding as M. Clifford noted.

Also a possibility is although when in arsenal these weapons were often treated with a coating (beeswax or some other type of other muck) a abrupt edge might have exposed less of the metal to corrosion in storage. The armory in Graz Austria might be a good place to look for confirmation on that idea. Some of those weapons have been there since the 16th century.

[Stacy Clifford]

Here is a thread I remembered from an old Swedish colleague who actually tried this barehanded with a sharpened Albion, which we all agree from experience are excellent cutters:

http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=3755

This is the model sword he was using for the test:

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/alb ... f-xvii.htm

[J. Harvey]

Thanks for all of the input and links , it's hard to find some of this stuff out on my own. You guys are great!

[Jerome Russell]

What is the best sharpener to kept your blades sharp?

[Webmaster]

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