New Article: Historical Fencing Footwear

[Webmaster]

This one is kind of a companion piece to the Volta, Key and Scale paper, now available in the public essays section. I think we've all seen (or even been) some newbie show up to practice in big, clunky shoes or boots that hinder their movement more than they realize.

Historical Fencing Footwear

[I. Hartikainen]

Hi!

I agree that flat-soled, flexible shoes are the way to go, and throughout most periods I believe such shoes were what the fighting men used when they trained.

With that said, I'd just like to add that it is also important to study a bit the footwear fashion apart from the martial arts context, as the men needed to be able to use their skills in whatever they happened to be wearing. And the shoes you had when riding, for example, may have had completely different requirements.

These are later period, but for example Petter and Porath both show men fighting with heels, so in case these periods are "your thing", it would be best to be able to fight also in fashion footwear.



Yours,
Ilkka

[Stacy Clifford]

I think the fundamentals of the Art are strong enough to work in any footwear in a pinch, but what John is trying to show in articles like this is that outliers like Petter are the exception rather than the rule when you look at the cumulative evidence. Just because Petter defies the overwhelming preference of most fighters doesn't make him flat out wrong (Gene Tausk studies & teaches Petter quite regularly, and I can assure you it's brutal and effective), but just because one master found it to be OK doesn't mean we can just ignore all the others who apparently didn't. This seems to happen a lot in RMA, latching on to one peculiarity of a particular master's manual or teachings and then insisting on applying it to everything, and as an organization dedicated to a holistic understanding of the Art across all the sources, admittedly this bugs us, so articles like this and the big vaage piece exist to do something about it. I basically agree with your post, Ilkka, I'm just trying to point out what we're trying to get across.

[Gene Tausk]

I think the fundamentals of the Art are strong enough to work in any footwear in a pinch, but what John is trying to show in articles like this is that outliers like Petter are the exception rather than the rule when you look at the cumulative evidence. Just because Petter defies the overwhelming preference of most fighters doesn't make him flat out wrong (Gene Tausk studies & teaches Petter quite regularly, and I can assure you it's brutal and effective), but just because one master found it to be OK doesn't mean we can just ignore all the others who apparently didn't. This seems to happen a lot in RMA, latching on to one peculiarity of a particular master's manual or teachings and then insisting on applying it to everything, and as an organization dedicated to a holistic understanding of the Art across all the sources, admittedly this bugs us, so articles like this and the big vaage piece exist to do something about it. I basically agree with your post, Ilkka, I'm just trying to point out what we're trying to get across.

Also, please note that Petter has his antagonist fighting in what would be the equivalent today of custom-made Armani suits. I don't believe Petter is advising people to dress yourself up in $5000.00 clothes and then go out on the streets to mess it up with hoodlums. Otherwise, word up to what Stacy already said.

[I. Hartikainen]

Hi!

I agree with you Stacy totally. And as Gene also pointed out, Petter's clothing is difficult to see as training clothing anyway.

And just as importantly I should have pointed out how some are depicted practicing or fencing naked. It is difficult to take this literally, but perhaps they did train bare-footed? Difficult to say. Some people do practice (especially rapier styles) bare-footed today, and I can't say anything against the approach. In the end it is also about personal preference and understanding how different footwear will require modifying the actions.

But I understand the point you and the article are making, and agree.

- Ilkka

[Nicholas Maider]

I believe some, but few, eager learners might expect to be working with sharps almost immediately. So it makes sense to wear combat boots or steel-toe work boots from that amateur perspective.

I also agree that there is a fear of no slip resistance in thinner shoes, and that notion keeps a lot of people in bulky shoes.

The range of motion, flexibility, and tactile feel of thin and flexible soles are only surpassed by being barefoot. Just looking at the complete absence of footwear in other martial arts tells us we are working in the right direction.

I wonder what types of lasts were used in renaissance shoe construction. There might only be 30 last styles available today, and they are usually for formal dress. It is a shame that modern shoemakers limit their designs to standard sizes, and a few standard shapes.

http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/produc ... /large.jpg

[Chris Moritz]

I have a pair of semi-historic shoes with thin leather soles, and just slightly-thicker leather heels, all a bit worn. I'm making a slightly modern repair (well, very modern repair) and am upgrading by adding rubber anti-slip tread material from Harbor Freight tools, only 2 mm thick with 3 mm lugs (5mm total). Very flexible and very 'sticky'.

http://www.harborfreight.com/self-adhes ... 98858.html

The rubber turns out to be not self adhesive, the adhesive is all dried up. Cleaned with acetone and applied E6000 adhesive to the leather and am gluing on oversized swatches of rubber to the roughly sanded leather soles:

http://www.amazon.com/E6000-Clear-Multi ... B000XZTD14

Will trim later. Not historic, but, O, the usefulness of a quick-and-dirty, sticky-rubber sole. Not finished yet; hope it is the right combination for durable and practical soles.

[Thomas Donnelly]

It seems to me that a lot of the shoes we see in period artwork look a lot like ballet slippers; would they make good fighting shoes? It seems like we are looking for less and less of a barrier between the foot and the ground and ballet slippers are that idea taken to the extreme.

an example: http://www.amazon.com/Capezio-Mens-2020 ... sbs_shoe_2

[John Farthing]

Indeed! You can read a review of the Sansha Men's Ballet shoe from ARMA Director John Clements here: http://www.amazon.com/review/RG6OYFAYMQ ... &linkCode=

[Thomas Donnelly]

Oh wow, That's great! I'm trying to start practicing HEMA on a budget and ballet slippers are dirt cheap; I will have to pick up a pair.

[Chris Moritz]

^ ^ ^ ^
Shoes with the thin leather soles covered with modern anti-skid rubber,

http://1725012.sites.myregisteredsite.c ... o-0002.jpg