Movies with realistic melee combat

[nathan featherstone]

also why do you want films there are excellent sparring videos out there while they dont end in death you can still use your imagination im sure and they can be very interesting to watch.

[Jonathan Waller]

The answer is easy! In common with most modern holywood hero/villain final cnfrontations, the "hero" turns into a bumbling idiot and looses all skill until the villain, has a brain fart at the end and acts like an idiot allowing the "hero" to win! End result we have a "hero"? whose claim to fame is the fact that the bad guy gave the fight away! Doesn't really make for a hero dies it!?

I always liked the Rob Roy one, until one glaring thing occurred to me. If Cunningham can command the fight so well the entire fight, why doesn’t he have the common sense to let go of the blade and get out of the way of the big broadsword that is being swung at him? I know it’s because Rob Roy is our hero, but really Rob had to grab the blade off the ground, rise up and take a full swing. Even with a finger stuck in the grip, Cunningham could have popped off for tea in that amount of time and still come back to get hit.

[Steven Ott]

You know one thing that I find lacking in sparring videos is defense. I personally believe our ancestors were better at it and didn't kill one guy every five seconds. To me that is unrealistic. ARMA has come a long way in offense and I think eventually the parrying, blocking and dodging aspect will catch up. I know that this isn't kendo but those guys have lighter, faster weapons with quick attacks and the defenses in those bouts are far more advanced. It can take a great deal of struggle to score a blow

[Sripol Asanasavest]

On the HBO miniseries "Rome", during the gladiatorial fight scene, it looks more like Thai martial art, not Roman or other European. i'm not sure why they use it.

[Gene Tausk]

On the HBO miniseries "Rome", during the gladiatorial fight scene, it looks more like Thai martial art, not Roman or other European. i'm not sure why they use it.

Sripol - on what basis do you make this rather outrageous claim? Were the actors using Thai weapons? Were they using Muay Thay kickboxing?

And, how do you define what is a "Roman" fight scene? Were you there 2000 years ago to witness such events? Maybe you have some fight book written about gladiatorial combat from people that actually participated in such combat? Please, share it with us.

Further, why don't you tell us that since this was a "Thai" fight scene, the actors were using gladius swords, a weapon which is as linked to ancient Rome like the katana is to feudal Japan, how such a weapon is supposed to be a Thai weapon?

Please, enlighten us. I am getting extremely sick and tired of your "heads up for the homeboy" approach on this forum to link everything to Thailand. While there is little doubt Thailand has a rich martial history, it is not a history which is pertinent to our discussions on this forum.

I therefore expect an answer from you which clarifies your statement. It had better be grounded in verifiable history and fact and further, from an English language source or from a verified translation from a foreign language into English.

Answers that will not be accepted include: (1) my friend told me (or some variant thereof) or (2) the fighting looks similar to this move in (X) martial art.

[Sripol Asanasavest]

Well, in one of the scene when Titus Pullo was fighting Lucius Vorenus ( not the gladiatorial fight scene), Vorenus held Pullo's neck and started to knee him like typical Muay Thai.

I don't think anybody knows for certain how the Roman fought, but I brought that up because it looked a lot like it. I've seen a lot of Krabi Krabong and Muay Thai fighters in action. I don't have any link to show how they actually fight and practice because I've witnessed it first hand, but I can tell you that it looked like it. Maybe they were trying to make it looked more interesting.

[Martin Lysen]

Eli --> If you want some good battles for inspiration and "source material", check these out:

From the movie "Against All", an old Czech historical movie. It shows well the chaotic and brutal nature of mass combat with melee weapons, and highlights the need of coordination, keeping of reserves and the fact that fleeing troops always get hammered when they try to disengage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afEfCniXWV8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE-ghxHN ... re=related

The second two clips show the importance of tactics with regards to positioning, terrain and field defences. And the fight in the muddy pond drives home the point that if you can't move, you can't fight effectively...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zapSxda ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpaeyIbk8N8&NR=1

I find the fighting in these two movies good, since the actors are unskilled at fighting. This may mean that you do not see any skilled moves from a manual, but neither do you see any silly theatrical drawn out stunt fights. The actors just bang away, which strangely looks better than most staged combats nowadays...


Sripol --> Do you seriously think the MT fighting art is the only one in history that has used knees against grappled opponents? Come on. Your post was off topic and irrelevant to the thread. Just admit it and move on.

[Gene Tausk]

Well, in one of the scene when Titus Pullo was fighting Lucius Vorenus ( not the gladiatorial fight scene), Vorenus held Pullo's neck and started to knee him like typical Muay Thai.

I don't think anybody knows for certain how the Roman fought, but I brought that up because it looked a lot like it. I've seen a lot of Krabi Krabong and Muay Thai fighters in action. I don't have any link to show how they actually fight and practice because I've witnessed it first hand, but I can tell you that it looked like it. Maybe they were trying to make it looked more interesting.

What did I say? This is not an acceptable answer:

"the fighting looks similar to this move in (X) martial art."

Do you think that holding someone by the neck and kneeing him is exclusive only to Thai martial arts?

Either get off your kick of saying everything is a Thai martial art or get off of our forums.

[Eli Freysson]

Thanks everyone, I'm getting some good material.

Eli --> If you want some good battles for inspiration and "source material", check these out:

From the movie "Against All", an old Czech historical movie. It shows well the chaotic and brutal nature of mass combat with melee weapons, and highlights the need of coordination, keeping of reserves and the fact that fleeing troops always get hammered when they try to disengage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afEfCniXWV8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE-ghxHN ... re=related

The second two clips show the importance of tactics with regards to positioning, terrain and field defences. And the fight in the muddy pond drives home the point that if you can't move, you can't fight effectively...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zapSxda ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpaeyIbk8N8&NR=1

Interesting. My biggest concern regarding the first book is the tactics of the great big battle scene at the end (a walled city being invaded). It's shown purely from the perspective of a single militia fighter, but I still feel I should study large-scale infantry tactics some more to make sure it all makes sense.
Is there a good online source for the basics?

[Martin Lysen]

Well as for online resources, I can recommend browsing google with appropriate searches, but the information can be wildly divergent and of questionable quality.

One good site would be De Re Militari, the Society for Medieval Military History at http://www.deremilitari.org/
You can find some quite interesting articles on warfare here, such as this one about tactics during the Hundred Years War: http://www.deremilitari.org/resources/a ... nnett2.htm

I can also recommend three actual books.

* Fighting Techniques of the Medieval World AD 500 to AD 1500: Equipment, Combat Skills and Tactics by Matthew Bennet

This is a nice work covering a lot of different styles of fighting across medieval Europe. It has sections on battle field tactics, troop types, command and control as well as siege warfare. You can find it at amazon.com.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_nos ... 00&x=0&y=0

* By Sword And Fire: Cruelty And Atrocity In Medieval Warfare by Sean McGlynn

This book takes a look at atrocity as a military weapon, a political tool and an accepted cultural form of expressing power and "knightly" ideals. It has some information on conduct during sieges including the treatment (or rather mistreatment) of non combatants. Also available from Amazon.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sword-Fire-Crue ... 0297846787

* A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous 14th Century by Barbara Tuchman

Not so very focused on battles, this highly entertaining book gives an in-depth look into the society and politics of the french nobility during the Hundred Years War, the reasons and conditions that led to battles, the way taken cities could be treated etc etc. It might by now be a little academically dated but it still remains a gold mine for understanding the life and thoughts of the warring class of one of medieval Europe's super powers.
http://www.amazon.com/Distant-Mirror-Ca ... 0345349571

These books can probably be found by library services too.

[LafayetteCCurtis]

If you can afford it, Kelly DeVries's book on medieval infantry warfare is also excellent. It's practically a must-have for any serious student of medieval tactics.

[HveHve]

The fights in the Hunted and A Grande Arte have some decent knife fights. Really, big movies usually have unrealistic fights so you're best bet would be to go to more niche sources like books and such. Hell I've even read comics with with what's basically info dumps on real martial arts and techniques.

[Randall Pleasant]

The fights in the Hunted and A Grande Arte have some decent knife fights. Really, big movies usually have unrealistic fights so you're best bet would be to go to more niche sources like books and such. Hell I've even read comics with with what's basically info dumps on real martial arts and techniques.

Please edit your profile to use your real name as stated in the forum rules.

Thank you,

[Chris Moritz]

At the 'end' of the sword era, but the scene of the Battle of the Crater from Cold Mountain is good, using knives and fists in a battle as crowded as a subway car. Also the excellent use of light and shadows, and the eagerness and enthusiasm as the troops 'pile on'; also, the Romanians made better extras for US soldiers than our legions of Civil War reenactors, I'm almost sorry to say.

Soldiers are holding the knives blade down whilst fighting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO3blzQH_Dc

[Chris Moritz]

The battle scenes in The Barbarians series (Goths, Vandals, Saxons).

Saxons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stdLIaoBca0

Vandals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqt9sVYA ... re=related