training books

[Dakota Brown]

When i get some more money i plan on getting some books to help me with my training and i want to show the list of what I'm getting so you guys could tell me if there good or not.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishl ... APZW0D6N1Z

[Joshua Cook]

I strongly recommend the Codex Wallerstein (especially if you have an interest in Ringen as well as swordplay) and the Medieval Combat books. These are modern english translations of the original manuscripts with black and white photocopy renditions of the original illustrations. It's always best to try to get the info from the original source. My biggest advice on these though is to shop around. I picked up Medieval Combat from my local Barnes & Noble for around five bucks, so this seems pretty overpriced. I would go ahead and get the Wallerstein though, that's actually about a third of what I paid for directly from Paladin Press.

John Clements' book is another excellent source, pretty good for beginners. The only thing to consider is the fact that there is some info in there (very little) that he has admitted is not the most accurate. He came to the conclusions on these from poor translations that he has since corrected in the ARMA curriculum.

As for the others, Lindholm and Tobler's texts, I haven't heard anything good. I have heard that Lindholm's is very inaccurate due to poor translations of source material. I can't really speak to that though, or to the accuracy of Tobler's work, since this came from a review and I haven't read these myself.

[Dakota Brown]

I strongly recommend the Codex Wallerstein (especially if you have an interest in Ringen as well as swordplay) and the Medieval Combat books. These are modern english translations of the original manuscripts with black and white photocopy renditions of the original illustrations. It's always best to try to get the info from the original source. My biggest advice on these though is to shop around. I picked up Medieval Combat from my local Barnes & Noble for around five bucks, so this seems pretty overpriced. I would go ahead and get the Wallerstein though, that's actually about a third of what I paid for directly from Paladin Press.

John Clements' book is another excellent source, pretty good for beginners. The only thing to consider is the fact that there is some info in there (very little) that he has admitted is not the most accurate. He came to the conclusions on these from poor translations that he has since corrected in the ARMA curriculum.

As for the others, Lindholm and Tobler's texts, I haven't heard anything good. I have heard that Lindholm's is very inaccurate due to poor translations of source material. I can't really speak to that though, or to the accuracy of Tobler's work, since this came from a review and I haven't read these myself.

I herd the Lindholm and Tobler's texts are suppose to be really helpful

[william_cain_iii]

Tobler tends to be regarded as a top-notch translator, so his work is good if you want something very accurate to the sources. On the other hand, his postures and specific interpretations aren't quite as universally approved of.

I use the Lindholm Ringeck stuff and Tobler's 'In Saint George's Name' for von Danzig. Between the two, I've been able to practice more or less any technique I like. I can't speak to the accuracy of the Lindholm stuff, but it is laid out in such a way as to make the Art very accessible to the beginner.

Wallerstein is in my opinion best approached later after getting a foundation from a Liechtenauer book (von danzig, goliath, ringeck, etc), then coming to Wallerstein as a means for further illumination. YMMV.

[Joshua Cook]

Like I said, Dakota, I can't speak for sure on Lindholm and Tobler. I just remember in a discussion with another ARMA member on our private e-mail list that, according to him, the translations in Lindholm were "out of date", meaning that he used older, more inaccurate translations of Ringeck. But, again, I can't really advise you on that as I haven't read the book myself.

If you want to get a good start, go to these parts of the ARMA site:

http://www.thearma.org/essays/StancesIntro.htm

http://www.thearma.org/manuals.htm

http://www.thearma.org/terms2.htm

These will give you a pretty good introduction and they are all free. Since you don't have much money to work with, I recommend buying a simple dowel rod to get started. Once you've got that, start practicing the stances and guards. Just remember that the guards are not static postures that you hold, but dynamic moments in time that you will constantly be shifting between in a swordfight. And remember, if you need help, we're always here to offer any advice we can. If you'd like, I'll even give you my personal email so you can contact me directly. I may still be a novice in the ARMA, but even still, sometimes it just helps to get an outsider's opinion.

[Dakota Brown]

Like I said, Dakota, I can't speak for sure on Lindholm and Tobler. I just remember in a discussion with another ARMA member on our private e-mail list that, according to him, the translations in Lindholm were "out of date", meaning that he used older, more inaccurate translations of Ringeck. But, again, I can't really advise you on that as I haven't read the book myself.

If you want to get a good start, go to these parts of the ARMA site:

http://www.thearma.org/essays/StancesIntro.htm

http://www.thearma.org/manuals.htm

http://www.thearma.org/terms2.htm

These will give you a pretty good introduction and they are all free. Since you don't have much money to work with, I recommend buying a simple dowel rod to get started. Once you've got that, start practicing the stances and guards. Just remember that the guards are not static postures that you hold, but dynamic moments in time that you will constantly be shifting between in a swordfight. And remember, if you need help, we're always here to offer any advice we can. If you'd like, I'll even give you my personal email so you can contact me directly. I may still be a novice in the ARMA, but even still, sometimes it just helps to get an outsider's opinion.

i dont need a dowel rod because im getting a Hanwei Tinker Pearce Blunt Trainer Longsword.

[Joshua Cook]

Good choice, let me know how it handles. In the meantime though, practice the guards when you get it to start, then I would move to the manuals page. Also get to know the vocabulary on the terminology page as many of the terms used in the manuals are explained there.

[Dakota Brown]

Good choice, let me know how it handles. In the meantime though, practice the guards when you get it to start, then I would move to the manuals page. Also get to know the vocabulary on the terminology page as many of the terms used in the manuals are explained there.

Okay i will start looking over the terminology page now

[Tim Gallagher]

Dakota,
If I may venture slightly off topic here, I have found that the Hanwei Tinker swords handle beautifully, but break rather quickly during earnest sparring. The hilt tends to rattle loose and great gouges come out of the blade with far too much ease. They are also unsafe in the thrust as the tips are very, very narrow. They are fine for drilling, though.
In my humble opinion you are much better off getting either an Arms and Armour trainer or (preferably) an Albion Meyer. Both are expensive but worth it.

Tim

[Randall Pleasant]

I herd the Lindholm and Tobler's texts are suppose to be really helpful

I have both Lingholm's and Tobler's books and I use them together to good effect, each has weak points. Having said that, when I need to look up from Ringeck I almost always grab Tobler's book. I find the layout of Tobler's book to be more user friendly.

[william_cain_iii]

I personally recommend the following approach - it's worked well for me in my liechtenauer studies.

I own the Lindholm Ringeck and Tobler's In the Name of Saint George (a translation of a bunch of stuff, including Von Danzig which is very similar to Ringeck).

I start with Von Danzig when I want to study a technique. Let's take the first Zornhau play. I read the text there, and think on what is said. Then I go and try to do the technique based on what was described.

From there, I go to my Ringeck and read it there, covering up the pictures before I really look at them. Again I try to do it, again based just on the text.

THEN I look at the images in Lindholm and see if they can clue me in on the matter in some way I have missed.

This can be done with two copies of Ringeck, or a Ringeck/Von Danzig pairup like I do. Thus you get two perspectives on the same material, and gain a deeper understanding of the Art that focuses less on one man's interpretation and less on one source than it does on the underlying principles and universal applications.

[Andrew F Ulrich]

Dakota,
If I may venture slightly off topic here, I have found that the Hanwei Tinker swords handle beautifully, but break rather quickly during earnest sparring. The hilt tends to rattle loose and great gouges come out of the blade with far too much ease. They are also unsafe in the thrust as the tips are very, very narrow. They are fine for drilling, though.
In my humble opinion you are much better off getting either an Arms and Armour trainer or (preferably) an Albion Meyer. Both are expensive but worth it.

Tim

Hey Tim, I hear the latest models are a lot sturdier, and other members have demonstrated that they hold up well in sparring. Dakota started thread about this a week or so ago, so if you'd like to discuss it further you might want to find that thread.

[Raman Amirthalingam]

I personally feel that both of Lindholm's books are excellent, instructions are easy to follow and the diagrams flow well. I can't comment on the veracity of his translations or how well they interpret the source material but as far as simply understanding what he's trying to convey they're as good as you can get in print form. Knightly Arts of Combat is one of my favorite books on the subject.