Identifying how to swing this blade...

[John Arntzen]

I recently got my hands on my first blade so that I can begin training with something more than sticks and display katanas (which are prone to falling apart in one's hands). I've done a fair amount of research prior to the purchase about blades in general; as a slimmer man I wanted to stray away from a claymore or other 2-handed weapon and seek a medium sword. My blade is known as "Anathros", a Kit Rae Fantasy sword (See Below)

http://www.replicadungeon.com/anathros-sword.html

No, I didn't pay that for it I found it at a flea market for much less. But after taking the blade home I realized it may be heavier than I had anticipated. Most one handed swords (to my knowledge) don't exceed a 30-inch blade in most cases. In the case of Anathros, the blade is stainless steel, approximately 32 inches long, 2 inches wide near the guard and narrowing down the blade. The base of the sword is 9 more inches, but only 6 are usable; the other 3 are decorative spikes. My hands are small enough that I can fit both of them on the grip (barely) but most of my friends can only fit one without being jabbed. It may not be an accurate measurement, but sitting on a scale vertically the sword comes out a little under 5 lbs, which seems a bit much, though I'm no professional.

My question, then, is what is Anathros and how should I swing it? I realize it isn't made to be a battle-ready blade nor should I strike things with it, I'm just an enthusiast who enjoys the training. But I would like to know whether I need both hands to wield it properly, or if over time I can train well enough to use this sword with one hand despite its weight. I am striving to dual wield blades one day and I know this sword may be heavy for that, but I would like to start somewhere. And, from what I've read, I need to learn one sword before I can try two anyway. In any case, let me know how to use Anathros (or if I should just hang it on the wall).

Thank you in advance for any feedback.

[Webmaster]

Please edit your username in your profile to your real first and last name in accordance with our forum rules.

And hang that thing on the wall. Fantasy swords are made for looks, not performance. If you want to learn historical arts, you need historical tools that were designed with performance as their first priority. Do some research on this forum and you will find a lot of threads on replicas and training tools.

[J. Harvey]

I'm no expert, but in my opinion - hang it on the wall. It sounds heavy and is likely poorly balanced . A poor sword will teach you poor habits. If you can afford a good practice sword such as an Albion or even some Hanwai's , get one , otherwise it's better to practice with a stick than an unbalanced overweighted fantasy sword. And the cross on the one you have looks rather dangerous.

[John Arntzen]

Thank you for sending me in the right direction, I had a feeling the blade was overly heavy and a bit outrageous. At least I have something to hang on my mantle now.

And my name has been changed to suit the forum rules, thank you for pointing that out.

[James Brazas]

If you want to know what a historically accurate weapon's length, weight, and balance would be, the easiest thing to do would be to browse Albion's website.

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/alb ... extgen.htm

Albion swords are arguably the best high performance blades in the world and they're certainly the most historically accurate. They may be out of your price range, but they will at least give you an idea of what a quality sword is like.

In case you're wondering, CoG is "Center of Gravity" - also known as PoB or "Point of Balance."

If all you want is something safe to practice and train with, but you want something historically accurate and well balanced, try:

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/alb ... aestro.htm

http://www.little-raven.com/RS/MA/western.html

http://www.newstirlingarms.com/shop/cat ... x?catid=27

You mentioned "dual wielding," by which I assume you mean two swords simulaneously. That was not used very much at all in the Medieval or Renaissance eras. There was a "Florentine" style, but that's about it. Far more common two-weapon styles would be sword-and-dagger, sword-and-buckler, or sword-and-shield. There are several medieval/renaissance fencing manuals that teach those styles, though not as many for sword-and-shield. By the time you see a lot of fencing manuals being written, sword-and-shield was no longer a common weapon style. Longsword had become the dominant sword style.

If one of those styles interests you, I can refer you to a good fencing manual.

[John Arntzen]

Thank you for your feedback James, I'll do some research now that I have somewhere to look. As per my "Dual Wielding" comment, I was saying not necessarily two swords but rather what you suggested, a buckler or dagger in my offhand. But I must first become adept with my right hand before I can operate my left with it coherently.

[Allen Johnson]

Just to clarify..."florentine" was never a historical term (isn't it a flavor of chicken?). I think that term was developed out of the SCA camp because there is some iconography from Florence that shows it. This is typically seen with what is more properly known as a case of rapiers. Even then, these are not the typical rapiers, but altered ones so they could fit in the same scabbard. This is not an easy nor commonly used technique. We can only assume because it wasn't nearly as effective as rapier and dagger or even empty off hand. But it was occasionally depicted in manuals.

case of rapiers: http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~wew/images/vitrine64.jpg
dual rapiers: http://www.honourandthesword.com/images ... dfight.jpg
Agrippa: http://www.moondragon.info/mediawiki/im ... apiers.PNG
Di Grassi: http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/NewManua ... 001092.jpg

[Stacy Clifford]

This is not an easy nor commonly used technique. We can only assume because it wasn't nearly as effective as rapier and dagger or even empty off hand.

I don't think it was necessarily rare because it was less effective, I think it was rare because it was so much more difficult to learn. Di Grassi tells the reader that you should be as good with a sword in your left hand as your right, or else you shouldn't use two swords if your life is counting on it. There is no such admonition for the sword and dagger, buckler, or other second hand weapon. Most students probably did not have either the time or the ability to gain that much skill in both hands when simpler combinations could satisfy their self defense needs. He also mentions that two swords were not used in the wars.

[Allen Johnson]

By effective I meant the usefulness of the experience as a whole. Time put into, training, and use. I just don't think the upside of a case of rapiers is high enough to warrant the time and effort needed to master it. If it was dramatically more effective I think more people would have used it. Also think of the marketing if word got out that dual rapiers was the baddest self defence system on the planet. We'd be seeing manuals and masters of this most secret art everywhere. I kind of group it with the flamberge blades. Kinda looks nifty and vicious, but really doesn't help much. They died out pretty quick too.

Then of course, there is always Silver's argument that you should train with a weapon that is suitable for both self-defence and war. Certainly he was not the only one who thought this way.

[Corey Roberts]

I will add my voice to what you've already been told by others, even though at this point it may be redundant. Sadly, I cannot tell you how to properly swing your sword, as your sword is not properly made. Even longswords well above 40 inches overall typically weigh in the 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 pound range. Your grip and other hilt parts are not made correctly either so the weapon cannot be gripped properly, the blade is also of stainless which is awful awful awful steel for sword blades and you should never buy a sword with a stainless blade if you actually intend on learning historically accurate, martially sound techniques. Sorry to reiterate what others have said, but I'm afraid your sword is a wall-hanger. But, hey at least you didn't pay full price for it!

[Allen Johnson]

Back on the idea of dual wielding two swords of equal length...Do we have any actual accounts, outside of the techniques described in the manuals, of this style being used in a fight? I'm not aware of any, but I certainly haven't read everything. You'd think that with all the hundreds of accounts of street fights and duels that we have, if this two sword style had any real serious application by period fighters, you might see an account or two.
Curious minds want to know...

[Stacy Clifford]

By effective I meant the usefulness of the experience as a whole. Time put into, training, and use. I just don't think the upside of a case of rapiers is high enough to warrant the time and effort needed to master it. If it was dramatically more effective I think more people would have used it. Also think of the marketing if word got out that dual rapiers was the baddest self defence system on the planet. We'd be seeing manuals and masters of this most secret art everywhere. I kind of group it with the flamberge blades. Kinda looks nifty and vicious, but really doesn't help much. They died out pretty quick too.

I agree on this. It's like saying that a $250K Ferrari isn't a whole lot faster than a $50K Corvette, but plenty of people still covet the Ferrari anyway. Same old story, Style vs. Substance.

[Allen Johnson]

Great analogy! I use one for teaching people the difference between sport fencing and western martial arts... fencing is like NASCAR...WMA is like flying a fighter jet!

[LafayetteCCurtis]

This is typically seen with what is more properly known as a case of rapiers. Even then, these are not the typical rapiers, but altered ones so they could fit in the same scabbard.

Not really. The two-sword methods I've read up on (Manciolino's, Marozzo's, and Di Grassi's) all seem to have been designed for a pair of ordinary swords, not specifically for the "case of rapiers" that would fit into a single scabbard.

[Allen Johnson]

That's why I said typically. I still would like to see if anyone knows of period accounts, outside of the manuals, where this was actually used. I still haven't been able to find any. If such a technique were superior, (which I doubt) then it certainly would have warranted documentation. Scant though our sources are.