ARMA, historians, hollywood, and video games

[James Brazas]

I know that all of us frequently lament pop culture's misunderstandings of Western swordplay and martial arts in general.

There are the persistent myths of heavy weapons and armor, brutish and artless swordplay, and a general assumption that our ancestors didn't know how to fight.

Even amongst those who respect Western combat styles, they often misrepresent it with plenty of edge-on-edge static parrying, a profound lack of pommel and quillion strikes, little to no grappling, no half-swording, no meisterhau, and little binding and winding.

Even such masterfully done films as the Lord of the Rings trilogy occasionally show such historical inaccuracies.

That leads me to think: why complain if we can do something about it?

The following are a few ideas:

[James Brazas]

Historical Sites:

One idea that has a lot of potential in my opinion is to do regular demonstrations at various historical sites (say once a month or something).

Here in the United States, we have various historical sites from the 1600s such as the Jamestown Settlement, Colonial Williamsburg, and Plymouth. They are within our era of study and there are organizations there that exist for the sole purpose of educating the tourists about what life was like back then. What better place could there be to showcase historically accurate Western martial arts? Weapons demonstrations could theoretically include side sword, sword-and-target, sword-and-dagger, sword-and-buckler, rapier, forest bill or spear. I tend to think that the side-sword (cut-and-thrust) would be the most important weapon from that era to feature.

Those in Europe would have much greater flexibility to demonstrate whatever weapons they want and they would have plenty of battle sites, castles, and areas of historical significance to choose from. So they would be in a much better position than those of us here in the States.

[James Brazas]

Hollywood:

Another idea is to get people from ARMA in contact with Hollywood groups that are known for producing films set in a medieval or renaissance setting. There are a lot of movies set in the medieval era or in medieval fantasy settings (like the Lord of the Rings) and the choreographers certainly would want to have quality fight scenes.

Perhaps the best group to get in touch with would be WETA workshop. They produce much of the equipment and do much of the choreography for films like the Lord of the Rings, the Chronicles of Narnia, and the upcoming Hobbit films. Due to their great attention to detail and their desire for historical authenticity (as exemplified in their recreation of Anglo-Saxon/Norman equipment for the Rohirrim), they could be quite open to getting input and training from ARMA representatives.

I know I for one would be very pleased to see Hollywood blockbusters with historically accurate swordplay.

[James Brazas]

Video Game Developers:

The last major media group I can think of that would be wise to contact would be video game developers.

Medieval and medieval fantasy games are a stable of the industry. Such games as the Legend of Zelda, Dragon Age and Skyrim are all very popular. They are also frequently inaccurate (static edge-on-edge parrying, referring to arming swords as "longswords", and other inaccuracies too numerous to recount here).

It may seem less dignified than demonstrations at castles or historic forts to many ARMA members, but it remains true that most of the exposure that younger members of our society get to medieval combat is through video games. Most of what they know about our martial heritage is through gaming.

There is one thing that I have found encouraging, however: The Legend of Zelda: the Skyward Sword. In that most recent Zelda game, Nintendo tried their best to recreate accurate sword-and-shield combat. They recreated the seinyo (the 8 standard cuts plus the thrust) as well as parrying with the shield to knock opponents' weapons aside. They also heavily emphasized attacking at openings in your opponents' guards. All of this is done with motion controls that fairly accurately mimic sword movements. Most of this was from fencing "experts" that they consultants.

Unfortunately, Zelda: Skyward Sword still contains static edge-on-edge parrying, historically inaccurate stances, very little you can do with your shield, and few sword attacks beyond the basic seinyo and a finishing move to stab opponents on the ground.

Still, Nintendo's desire to recreate accurate sword-and-shield combat indicates that they would likely be very open to consulting real medeival fencing experts like the more experienced fencers of ARMA. They have also explicitly stated that they are looking to expand upon their motion controls and create a more accurate fencing experience in games to come.

While we may not have any early medieval sword-and-shield manuals, we have plenty of sword-and-buckler as well as sword-and-target/rodella manuals. This is especially important as Link's shield is essentially a target or rodella size steel shield. So Renaissance sword-and-target would work.

Giving guidance to Nintendo and other companies that make medieval video games could be a major step forward in educating younger generations about the truth of medieval and renaissance Western fencing.

[Jonathan_Kaplan]

Does anyone know enough about motion capture rigs to be able to jury-rig a set of videos that would be useful to various video game developers, of various moves? And just mail them to various game developers, labelled appropriately? Make it 'easy' on developers to at least get part of their games to look right? Label them things that are easy for video game developers to understand, like 'stance 1', 'stance 2', 'counter 1', 'in combat movement 1', 'in combat movement 2', 'counter 2', 'strike 1', 'strike 2', 'anti-armor strike 1', 'anti-armor strike 2', 'finishing move 1', 'finishing move 2', stuff like that? Stuff that is useful for companies? And give them specific permission to use the motion capture shown to make a profit with? Several of these developers are hiring, fyi...

I'd send them to cdprojektred, bethsoft, companies like that...

[James Brazas]

Jonathan Kaplan,

That's certainly one interesting way to go about it. I don't have any experience with motion capture technology, though. If someone else did, that would be great.

I was more thinking that some of the higher ups and more experienced members of ARMA might try contacting historical sites, hollywood groups like WETA, and various video game developers. Our folks could then explain to them why they ought to look into HEMA in order to get greater historical authenticity. Perhaps ARMA members could meet with their choreographers and programmers.

[James Brazas]

Does anybody else have any ideas or input?

Ideally, I think we ought to get some sort of official ARMA delegation to go to these groups.

Would Clements, Pynenberg or any of the other higher ups be interested in reaching out to historical, hollywood, or gaming organizations?

They would no doubt have the requisite experience to be able to answer any questions they might theoretically have. They would also be taken much more seriously by industry leaders than any of our rank and file.

My personal opinion is that we ought to start really reaching out to society because they aren't going to be coming to us - in large part because most of the entertainment leaders likely don't know ARMA exists.

[Stacy Clifford]

I know John Clements has already done some similar consulting for a video game company in the past, though I can't recall which one.

[James Brazas]

If memory serves, it was "Riddle of Steel", wasn't it?

I may actually purchase the game just due to ARMA's input into the game creation process.

I do get the idea that it was sort of a small-budget, small-studio game.

Ideally, I'd love to see ARMA have significant input into games and movies made by major studios. To me, that would seem the fastest and easiest way to get the message out about the truth of medieval/renaissance fencing.

[Sal Bertucci]

Actually Riddle of steel was made by former ARMA Deputy Director Jacob Norwood.

If I remember correctly John Clements has done some consulting with Blizzard. But if I remember correctly they didn't use much of his material (Which is typical for the entertainment industry)

[Stacy Clifford]

"Riddle of Steel" was also a books & dice RPG, not a video game. Sal's right, Blizzard was the company I was thinking of.

[Jonathan_Kaplan]

Blizzard? What could he do with Blizzard? Blizzard uses an intentionally stylized, highly artistic art style for their games. It's like complaining that Picasso paintings aren't realistic enough? I suppose I could see a LITTLE bit of real life stuff working with their Diablo series, but not to a significant extent...?

[Chris Holloman]

So what was the name of the game that Jake Norwood was working on? And no, ABBA did not know...hehe.

Bro. Chris

[Sal Bertucci]

What could he do with Blizzard?

Focus people, Blizzard consulted HIM on the matter.

[Jonathan_Kaplan]

What could he do with Blizzard?

Focus people, Blizzard consulted HIM on the matter.

Yea, I'm just trying to figure out why a company with so much invested in, well, over the top sort of art and combat styles and such would contact him. That's all I meant. Companies which haven't invested most of their image to intentionally be so, you know, fantastic would find real world stuff more helpful, I meant. Does anyone know of any other companies which might find some use in this sort of stuff? I already mentioned the people that did the Witcher series and the people that did Skyrim... anyone know any other likely companies?