How is one to properly begin learning the art?

Virgil Grey · Post by **Virgil Grey** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:42 pm

Hello, I have long been searching for a martial art, or rather method, which both incorporates significant research and "live" training particularly for bladed weapons. ARMA seems to fit these requirements beautifully.

However I am a little at loss in how to begin. I am, for the moment, unable to attend any of the meetings due to financial constraints which will likely persist for some time and so I sought alternative ways to supplement my current martial arts curriculum with long sword training.

Not having any study groups near me, I thought it might be best to study the manuals for now and engage in a bit of solo work until more formal training is available. Are there any recommendations on particular manuals to start with or any ways I could better this approach method?

Oh yes, I was also looking into purchasing a metal sword for practice (blunt or sharp, I imagine the majority of my practice will be alone so this should matter little). After perusing the forums it seems there is a clear preference for Albion swords on this matter but admittedly these are quite far beyond my means. A sword under or around $200 would be greatly preferred. To this end there seems to be some recommendation for Hanwei Tinker swords and/or practical bastard swords though with the closing of their old factory it seems I've come a little too late to attain these swords at a fine price as well. The Hanwei hand and a half seems a good sword though and the price is more agreeable, would this sword be a good starter or should I go for something else?

Thanks.

John Young · Post by **John Young** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:10 am

Good post. I am in much the same position. Although I have gotten to attend a couple practices with ARMA members. The practices were great and really helped me. One I drove two hours and the other 4 hours but well worth the effort and cost of gas. Right now I am practicing with wasters from New Stirling. I am hoping to get a blunt later this year. I am trading one of my selfbows to a swordsmith in Arizona for a sharp but I have no idea when that trade will take place. Him and me both work slow in our craft.
I have been unable to find the Tinker blunt anywhere. I emailed Hanwei and they said they did not know when the Tinker blunt would be back in stock.
As far manuals. All I have really got to study is Clement's book from 97 and what resources are here in the ARMA website.
I will be interested to see where this thread goes. It will be good info for both of us.
John

Chris Holloman · Post by **Chris Holloman** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:29 am

Hey John and John!

I have both of these and am very pleased with them for the money...

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... tard+Sword

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... -+Antiqued

Just as with studying the scriptures, there is nothing that can replace reading from the source material itself. That being said, it is immeasurably helpful to "see" someone doing the things from the manuals so that you can visualize what you are reading. There are many great videos here on the ARMA site that will show you the ARMA interpretation of the sources and they are worth your time.

The Historical European Martial Arts Community is very diverse. There are people pursuing this art for various reasons and with a variety of goals. If you read the articles here you should get a good idea of what ARMA is all about. There are others out there doing similar things so take the time to get a good perspective on what is going on.

Here is a good manual to start reading... www.thearma.org/Manuals/Dobringer_A5_sidebyside.pdf No pictures, just words.

Be aware also that there has been some personal and political rifts within the community in the recent past and you will inevitably run into this. Don't let it discourage you, just eat the meat and throw away the bones!

There is great joy in the pursuit of this art, I pray that you get to experience that! Let me know if I can help you in any way.(I am new myself, just so you know...)

In Christ,
Bro. Chris

John Farthing · Post by **John Farthing** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:10 pm

John Grey wrote:
Not having any study groups near me, I thought it might be best to study the manuals for now and engage in a bit of solo work until more formal training is available. Are there any recommendations on particular manuals to start with or any ways I could better this approach method?

Mr. Grey,

ARMA Member Salvatore Bertucci resides near Parker, Colorado. I am not sure how close that is to you, but it might be worth looking him up (he is a user on this forum). I think there may also be other ARMA members in Colorado, but I am not 100% certain at this time (again, Sal could likely help you with regard to that).

In the meantime, check out the section entitled 'Where to Start' right here on Our ARMA webpages: http://www.thearma.org/wheretostart.htm

Best,

Sal Bertucci · Post by **Sal Bertucci** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:06 am

John Grey!

Welcome! I live in Parker, CO, and there is actually another ARMA member Andrew Weems that lives in Denver. Feel free to send either of us a PM, and we can work out a time to get some training in!

Look forward to hearing from you!

Jaron Bernstein · Post by **Jaron Bernstein** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:52 pm

You can get a wooden waster (I suggest NSA or Raven) for around 100$. Get that and save up for a steel. There are ARMAteers in your area. Arrange a study day to meet with them. Bring a notebook and however else you record data. That should get you started. I can't speak about fees for other organizations (which range from good to abysmal in quality), but ARMA membership is a pittance per year for what you get in return. And ARMA does offer what is arguably the best training around in this Art in this era.

Virgil Grey · Post by **Virgil Grey** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:21 pm

Marvelous, I sent a reply to your PM Sal, good to see there are a few Colorado practitioners. I've been looking at the Hanwei Bastard Sword and it seems to be the perfect sharp for the price however I was also looking at the Hanwei Practical Hand and a Half Sword for a blunt http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... Generation and after reading around a bit it seems to be somewhat short for a longsword. It costs nearly as much as a wooden waster though, so would any still recommend it?

Chris Holloman · Post by **Chris Holloman** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:41 pm

Hey John G,

If you search around, I did a write up about the sword I posted a link to and the sword you are mentioning. It is a little short but is usable. If you search through my posts it should show up.

Hope that helps.
Bro. chris

Virgil Grey · Post by **Virgil Grey** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:12 pm

One more question on the Hanwei Bastard Sword, can it be used effectively with just one hand? I'm surprised by the number of long swords hovering around the 35" mark and after seeing a few videos the Hanwei Bastard does seem to more heavily favor a two-handed grip than many other long swords.

Sal Bertucci · Post by **Sal Bertucci** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:28 pm

Modern names seem to be there for marketing purposes only.

It's a sword designed for two hands.

Virgil Grey · Post by **Virgil Grey** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:49 pm

Ah, good, now the names of the swords are actually starting to appear meaningful haha. So would the actual name for a dedicated Medieval one-handed blade be arming sword or merely short sword? Also is it thus that the accurate name for the sword which favors one-handed use yet allows two-handed use is the hand and a half sword?

Sal Bertucci · Post by **Sal Bertucci** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:21 pm

That is essentially correct.

That being said, as a culture in general we are much more particular about "naming" things than our for-bearers were. I've seen several instances where a waster or other trainer comes out, and we hem and haw about the handle being too long for a longsword, or the blade being too short when as you look back you can find several models of such a design and they are just called "swords"

John Young · Post by **John Young** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:43 am

Good info genltleman.
I have been studying the Dobringer files for the website. And the Talhoffer manual as well.
Chris,
Good to hear from you. I have been thinking about dropping the hammer on the Tinker Longsword sharp. I have a small study group going now. There are 3 of us and 2 more going to start soon. I put in my individual application back in December and haven't heard anything back yet. But I have high hopes of being able to put together a study group. We are meeting on Friday evening right now. If you get a chance to come up let me know and I'll get you some directions.
John

Chris Holloman · Post by **Chris Holloman** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:36 am

Hey John Y,

I would love to come up and visit you guys. I leave for Haiti in about three weeks so it will have to be after that. Glad to hear you have found others to train with!

Keep searching and reading reviews on the different swords. I found some detailed reviews about the Tinker sharp. It may have been on the SFI or HEMA Alliance forum. Several people did not like that sword as a cutter so keep reading before you decide.

Jesus blessings to you brother!
Bro. Chris

Virgil Grey · Post by **Virgil Grey** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:45 pm

I've been doing more browsing about for blades and the Hanwei Practical Bastard Sword seems to be the best starting practice blade.

However I was also searching for a good sharp for solo practice under or around $400 which was primarily a one handed sword yet could be used with two. So a hand and a half I suppose. I've heard mixed things about the Hanwei Tinker Bastard Sword and all Albion blades seem to be considerably pricey. Any recommendations?

The Association for Renaissance Martial Arts

How is one to properly begin learning the art?

How is one to properly begin learning the art?

Re: How is one to properly begin learning the art?

Re: How is one to properly begin learning the art?

Hanwei review

Sharp