Wooden Rapier

[Ryan Snavely]

Been thinking about starting to learn the rapier a lot more lately, but can't seem to find any wooden rapier training swords. Do they not make them or am I just not looking hard enough? Haha

[Stacy Clifford]

http://www.newstirlingarms.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=36

This one was designed specifically for rapier training. We just started working on rapier here in Houston with them and they're pretty nice.

[Ryan Snavely]

The Arma Tuck? Thanks! Because of the hilt I mistook it for a different kind of sword when I was searching around earlier haha

[J. Scott Steflik]

What source(s) are you thinking of looking at?
If you're planning on training with the rapier, why not start with steel? Even the low-end steel simulators can be fairly close to historical examples and not much more expensive than the wooden trainer in the link. They are also widely available and used by thousands of of people; the ability to cross blades and train with a multitude of people with different training backgrounds and perspectives on the Art is a huge advantage, even if it's just to find out they're a chump

[Ryan Snavely]

I was thinking looking over "Italian Rapier Combat: Capo Ferro's 'Gran Simulacro'" for starters.

[Stacy Clifford]

If you're planning on training with the rapier, why not start with steel?

I wish I could advocate steel, but flexible blades do not perform the same way as stiff ones in the bind, creating an unrealistic feel and a reduction in point control. That's the reason ARMA had the tuck designed in the first place, and it's one of the only cases where we'll say that wood outperforms steel with respect to what's currently on the market. If somebody made a stiff steel rapier trainer with a ball tip that wouldn't snap off too easily (as nail tips are wont to do), we'd be on it in a heartbeat. Obviously you have to be more careful sparring with stiffer blades, but an excuse to learn better control is not a bad thing.

[J. Scott Steflik]

I wish I could advocate steel, but flexible blades do not perform the same way as stiff ones in the bind, creating an unrealistic feel and a reduction in point control.

Even the low-end steel simulators can be fairly close to historical examples and not much more expensive than the wooden trainer in the link.

I don't understand the need for a training sword that's stiffer than the period original sharps. Some of the originals I've handled had MORE flex (when I had the balls to test them) than my first training rapier. Looking at detailed measurements of other period pieces and quality reproductions reveals much the same.

So this is one of those cases where I'm going to have to respectfully, and strongly, disagree.

[Stacy Clifford]

Some of the originals I've handled had MORE flex (when I had the balls to test them) than my first training rapier. Looking at detailed measurements of other period pieces and quality reproductions reveals much the same.

The key word here is some. Certainly there was variation in the manufacture and design of rapiers, just like every other type of sword, and they're not all absolutely the same. I've handled a couple of period originals myself which clearly had no flex at all. John Clements has handled literally hundreds of them and his observation is that the clear majority were very stiff. My personal experience with flexible trainers is as I said: they bounce around in the bind too much and the wobbly point doesn't go where I want it to. Wooden trainers don't have these problems and the techniques feel much more accurate when performed with them in my opinion.

It's also worth noting that this is dependent on exactly what you define as a "rapier". If you include blades that still retain some cutting ability and are thus more flattened, then yes, those will be somewhat more flexible. If you use the term mainly to refer to swords that are basically 4-ft. ice picks, which may have triangular, hexagonal, octagonal, or even star-shaped cross sections for a significant portion of the length, those are not going to flex. Those are what ARMA refers to when we say "rapier," though we understand the definition will never be universal or perfect.

This article contains some beautiful examples:

http://www.thearma.org/spotlight/heymr.htm

And of course this one covers many arguments in much more detail than I can here:

http://www.thearma.org/Youth/rapieroutline.htm