Melee Duration?

[John Madison]

Hello,
I have just discovered the ARMA web site and I am very impressed with the wealth of knowledge here. I have many questions and hope those who post on these forums are as generous with their knowledge and experience as the web site's articles and links are.

I am curious to know how long a typical sword fight/duel lasted? I have my guesses but it would be nice to know at least in a generalization the duration of most fights.

If anyone has opinions even I would welcome them. Again I must stress my "newness" to this web site and in general to the art and knowledge of medieval combat.

Thanks in advance,

John

[Randall Pleasant]

John

Welcome! Everyone here on the ARMA forum is indeed very generous with their knowledge and experience. <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" /> To the best of my limited knowledge, fights with swords normally did not last very long. <img src="/forum/images/icons/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[John Madison]

Thanks Randall,
Can you be specific? I would guess most fights are over within a minute or two or less. I know very little of real sword fighting, but I can only conclude two equally skilled opponents would strike a wounding blow within 2-3 strikes or in turn receive such a wound that would cause the fight to end in victory or defeat.

John

[Casper Bradak]

Tough to answer but generally a lot quicker than the movies! Try reading accounts of duels, trials, and passages of arms. The book The Sword and the Centuries I think would be a good place to start.

[Webmaster]

For a little perspective, during our Senior Free-Scholar Prize Playings we fight between 70-90 one hit bouts in the space of about an hour of continuous sparring with a few short breaks of a minute or two. That's in a confined area. I've also noticed that when we have more room to move around, charge and retreat, bouts tend to get longer on average, but still don't usually last more than two minutes before somebody makes a good hit.

[JeanryChandler]

I agree with everyone, though it depends on the weapons. With shields or sword and dagger you might go as many as 10-15 exchanges before someone gets a bad hit, perhaps even longer. (Thats still generally less than a minute) With longswords it tends to go much quicker.

If you want to see what a realistic fight looks like in the media, I would reccomend some of Kirosawas Samurai movies, notably Yojimbo, and the 7 Samurai. You can see what are IMHO very realistic fights, you'll notice they do not last long before it takes a "tragic" turn...

Jeanry

[Shane Smith]

It seems to me that someone is normally struck within 2-3 blows with longsword. The only major exception to that I have been involved in was a couple of several minute long bouts with a particular Swordsman at the ARMA Intl. Event. Two minutes while fencing seems an eternity <img src="/forum/images/icons/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Karen Rose]

Welcome!
Check out this short video. Go to the ARMA home page, next go to section one (Information), click on the 'video' link.
It will take you to a whole bunch of short training and informational videos done by the folks here. View the video entitled:

Ely "duel", July 2000
Matt H. & John C.

I had to watch it twice to make sure I didn't miss something! This will give you an idea of how fast things can move when folks know what they are doing.

I find the videos very informative. You'll need Quicktime or in some cases MS Media player to view. No problem, you'll get a download prompt if you don't have it....freebee.

Good luck in you learning experience!

Karen

[James_Knowles]

Kirosawas Samurai movies, notably Yojimbo, and the 7 Samurai.

I've been going through Akira Kurosawa's films lately. (He's a relatively recent discovery for me.) I'll have to agree that he's better than most. The battles typically are fast and to the point. No tap-tap-tap-pause for dramatic dialogue-tap-tap-tap. Well, I can't say none, but very little compared to Hollywood.

I recently watched Sanjuro. As with even the great Kurosawa, it was theatrical, but very quick with mostly one or two hits and the oponent went down. The final duel between Sanjuro and Hanbei at the very end was a lightning fast one-cut match, kind of like the one in Shichinin no samurai (Seven Samurai).

I loved Yojimbo, but it's been too long since I've seen it to remember the fighting clearly, so I can't comment. Same with Ran and Throne of Blood, Kurosawa's renditions of King Lear and Macbeth.

The fighting in Rashomon sucked IIRC. It's an interesting movie, but not for the fighting.

[Casper Bradak]

"The fighting in Rashomon sucked IIRC. It's an interesting movie, but not for the fighting."

Yeah, from what I recall, not so fun to watch, but realistic.

[Jake_Norwood]

I actually feel that the fighting in Rashomon--specifically the last fight in the account of what "really" happened--is the closest thing to what a real fight probably looked like in most situations where the participants would have similar motivations.

Jake